Farang go home! Do we complain too much?
A post on New Mandala today led me to another provocative post by Fonzi on Thailand Jumped the Shark. The issue in question is one that I pondered writing about last week after a post on the Bangkok Recorder forums got out of hand and culminated in a pointless slagging match between Farangs and Thais.
One flippant comment by a foreigner about a party led to a spate of Thais jumping up to defend the party and everything else to do with Thailand. It was a knee-jerk, almost predetermined, response that I come across far too often. Just last week a reader of my blog left me a comment along the lines of: “Stupid Farang this not your country. Go home.†After my database loss I cannot retrieve the exact comment, but that’s more or less what was written.
There is a powerful attitude amongst many Thais, not limited to older generations, that does not appreciate any negative comment about anything related to Thailand. The discussion on the Bangkok Recorder forums, after a number of comments purposely written in Thai under the assumption that foreigners would not be able to read them, led to remarks such as these (direct quotes, not edited):
i would like to ask some stupid question, who are you (i mean farang who come to this board)? why are you here? what are you doing here? and why don’t you go somewhere else if you think this place doesn’t suit your style?
—
we don’t hate farang. we welcome everyone who wants to come into this country. but i feel dizzy everytime i see farang who has nothing but stupidity and ugliness and still talk shit about the countries they have to live in (because they’re nothing else but piece of SHIT in their own coutries).
—
i want to know what kind or who are farangs here? why are you here and what are you doing here? and some of you who are so upset about anything in bkk (social, culture, lifestyle, party, music or whatever), why don’t you go back home or somewhere else where you can be more happy?
Remember when Sitthichai said this of the YouTube clips:
“Those clips are very harsh to the feelings of Thai people and our culture, and foreigners will never understand.â€
It’s as if we are not allowed to form opinions that don’t praise Thailand. What is this prehistoric attitude? Surely you cannot see every single thing about your surroundings in a positive light, but that does not equate to hating the country, as some Thais would suggest. Furthermore, as Fonzi points out, many Thais are quick to say that we, as foreigners, simply do not understand the intricacies of such things as the monarchy. This seems to result from a very basic grasp of the need for criticism; to question things is a fundamental basis for instilling change, and change means moving forward. Why foreigners are not able to express there opinions without being told to go home is beyond me.
Thais occasionally exhibit very low opinions of their own country when they say that all foreigners living here are failures, social outcasts, and just plain losers. They inadvertently paint their country as a land of failure with remarks about those who choose to live here.
Back to foreigners not being able to grasp Thai culture, this came from the Bangkok Post:
Chai-anan Samudavanija, an NLA member and president of the Royal Institute, said some countries have been critical of the Thai monarchy because they do not understand Thailand’s social context and the actual situation here.
So if we criticise we automatically don’t understand? How absurd. Fonzi is right when he says:
That is like saying that only Westerners can understand democracy or only the Chinese can understand China or that Christians can only understand Christianity.
I don’t always agree with what Fonzi says or the way he says things, but this I can relate to. It’s almost too predictable to be true, but one reader of Thailand Jumped the Shark replied to Fonzi’s post with this comment:
I have been trying to understand you. You are really such a miserable person. If you don’t like the country and its people very much, why don’t you just leave? No one forces you to stay there, I guess.
This is exactly the issue here! Fonzi has found himself the subject of much scorn once more, but I must admit that what he says is food for thought. It’s not a question of choosing sides (Farang or Thai), it’s a matter of looking at what is really happening and debating why it is happening.
What do readers here think? Should we just shut up, and are we really incapable of understanding the issues at hand?
Techno’ tags: Thailand
May 27th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Great Post. It is always easier to attack the person than debate the issues.
May 27th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
So nice not being there anymore. Not having to listen to the continual xenophobic anti-foreigner rantings of Thais is quite refreshing. Can’t say I miss a single thing about Thailand. Debate with Thais is pointless, they’re always right.
May 28th, 2007 at 1:17 am
There are xenophobic people everywhere.
However is this more a reaction to the cosmocratic type of person who find themselves without any national preference and have access to money enough to be impermanent? Particularly in Thailand where the economy is complimentary enough for Farangs to survive very comfortably on comparatively what would be considered little money at ‘home’, yet Thailand is not exactly ‘developing world’ (at least not in BKK)
I think maybe Farangs need to remember where they are and how significant the impact they’re having on a culture that is beginning to modernize is. Perhaps some Farangs find themselves insignificant at ‘home’ and they take this attitude to Thailand. These Farangs might fail to realise what they represent to some Thai people.
So yes we should shutup and listen. By we I mean everyone… and by should, I mean it probably won’t happen.
May 28th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Especially the older-generation Thais had an expression for white foreigners, namely “farang khi nok”, which translates as “bird shit foreigner.” People in their 30ties still remember that as kids, on sighting a foreigner, they would run after him yelling “farang khi nok, farang khi nok.” Lovely, isn’t it? That’s why I mostly dress “properly” and not in t-shirts and short pants, and I drink water from the bottle by using a straw, etc. Also, my Thai girlfriend does not like to be seen with a “farang khi nok.” Mind you, social status is extremely important with the Thais. Small wonder that Thais, being as defensive as they mostly are, do not suffer criticism gladly from such farang. In one of my first lessons in Thai at the Union Language School, our teacher told us, “Frankly speaking, the Thais don’t like farang.” But then, there are also the “jek” (Chinese Thai) who they equally dislike, only that they have Thai citizenship.
May 28th, 2007 at 11:54 am
There are millions of Thais living abroad. They have the right to become part of other countries and civilizations. If they live in the West, they can become democratic activists, lecturers, businessmen, etc, and if they complain, nobody tells them that they hate their adopted country. There are many foreigners who have made Thailand their home over the last 500 years and have contributed to Thai society in many ways. Many Chinese, for example, have made great strides in Thailand. They didn’t get where they are today by sitting on their asses, keeping their mouths shut and doing nothing.
Americans complain about the US, but that doesn’t make them anti-American. Same with the British, the Chinese, and many other nationalities. Thais complain about Thailand all the time and that doesn’t make them anti-Thai.
My frame is that people who care enough to criticize actually have a deep commitment and love for the place they are criticizing.
I have two types of friends: The type who kisses my ass and tells me what I want to hear. And the type who is willing to talk to me straight and give me a kick in the butt when I need it. Guess who I respect and value more?
You criticize your child because you want the best for your child. You criticize your friends because you love your friends and want to be close to them. You criticize your society because it is a part of who you are and you want it to succeed rather than fail.
People may criticize my blog or me and my personality. I may sound radical and provocative sometimes. It is intentional.
Regardless, I don’t think anyone could ever accuse me of not having a deep and faithful commitment to Thailand. I think the same goes for Bangkok Pundit and Matt.
You don’t spend hours developing a blog on a topic that you hate and despise.
Trust me, there are other things out there I could be doing that could cause me less angina than Thai politics.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
I don’t live in Thailand, but the issue is no different from what I have seen in India. Commnities are very sensitive to criticism by ‘outsiders’. In India which has a great amount of diversity from region to region, you can see this manifest itself when someone from one community critiques another one.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Adding to my previous comment, I think this is one the greatest strength the United States seems to have. I have lived in that country for a couple of years, and I found the people there a lot more receptive to bouqets and brickbats from foriegners than any other country I have spent time in. Probably because they have a long history of immigrant populations, while Thailand and India are more recently so.
May 28th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
There is a point that you have to consider:
You can not indeed understand Christian if you have no knowledge of what Christianity is (or Islam or whatever). Generally, you can not understand a culture if you know nothing about it.
So there is a pre-requisite to criticism, it is that of knowing what you are talking about, at least to some extent.
In this regards, I believe that there are as many Farang who have no idea of what they are talking about when they talk about Thailand (and there was a very good article about it two days ago in The Nation) that there are Thai who don’t know what they are talking about when they criticise Farangs.
This being said and assuming we are in a knowledgeable company, Many Thais are open to hear what you have to say if you say it the right way, that is a Thai way. And I find that personally admirable that if you know the culture then you are able to convey the cristicsim in a way that will not offense your interlocutor and in a way he will understand.
Personally, being between 3 cultures (French, British and Thai) I alway surprise myself when I have to say to a Brit horrible things that I would say in a very different way if I was talking to a French (And believe me it would be very different!).
The same is true when I talked to Thaia. If you want to avoid the knee jerk reaction, then say it the Thai way, and at the same time you will be able to demonstrate that you know what you are talking about. Even if they don’t verbally acknowledge what you say, they are not deaf. Learn to recognize unspoken agreement!
~R
May 28th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
I just remembered the following story:
There is a story that goes along the line of… In a far aways land a people was wearing blue sunglasses and hence saw everything in blue. One day the people wearing blue sunglasses met the people from another far away land where the inhabitants were wearing yellow sunglasses and saw everything in yellow.
They talked and talked trying to become friends and set up good relations but had much difficulty understanding each other and each other’s point of view.
This went on for some time until the people wearing blue sunglasses where told that the other people were wearing yellow sunglasses. They then had the idea to buy yellow sunglasses and wear them to better understand the other. So they did, they bough yellow sunglasses and put them on, and then exclaimed “But of course These people see everything in green!â€
~R
May 28th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
HAHAHHAHA.
Matt, you’re mental if you think this is a debatable topic.
You cannot criticize the Thais in any way shape, or form without an insane backlash. You should know this by now.
No matter how intelligent your opinions are, and no matter how intelligent the Thai you are talking to is.
Either way, it doesn’t matter. Thailand is heading for the shitter and I’m so fed up with these prehistoric attitudes that I’m actually secretly rooting against it.
It’s always a nice feeling to be told to shut the fuck up when you mention that you’re concerned about freedoms of press and internet censorship…. just because you’re a foreigner…. even though you’re resident and paying tax.
Do you know why? They don’t give a fucking shit what you think. You will always be another dumbass farang. Even your ‘closest’ friends will always regard you this way.
Just learn to deal with it, and more importantly, learn to profit of it.
May 28th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Paul, inspiring stuff. My thoughts entirely!
May 28th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
What a nice journal entry and the inputs that has followed from it. :) Also I appreaciate Roger input, I would personally love to hear someway more about these different glasses that you personally need to use between British, French and Thais for example. As I believe that this is invaluable information if one wants to make changes and contribute in for example these three business environments. I haven’t found any material, you know “101 on getting message thru in Thai business”, that would really help so that one don’t have to learn these things personally by trial-and-error…And what you Roger mention is perfect example and thing to keep in mind: When you change those “glasses”, you are still the same person, thinkin’ the same, trying to get the same results (for example change management and consturctive critisism). This doesn’t mean that one gives up in his or her values or reconsiling so that one would sacrifice your values or goals. In fact, this should NOT happen if you want to instigate change when you really know what you try to for example do is the “right thing”, unlike some might see it. There is old example, apostle Paul if I remember correctly, from Bible, who once said: “I became Roman for Romans and Greek to Greeks”, he tried to say that he didn’t give up of his beliefs, but instead to get his message thru he tried to speak to Romans and Greeks in their own terms, own “language”. This is one old example of cultural exhange and learning eh…:) Fits for many situations, sometimes one gotta give up on the “hard line” but without sacrifising what you are deep inside and what your “goals” are.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:42 am
Kahve,
You might like it. It is a parody of course…
John/Jean/Somchai has performed badly. Some corrective measures are needed and his boss calls him in his office to let him know about it.
English version:
Ah John, come in, take a seat. Coffee? Well, I asked you to come because I’d like to talk about your work. You did well until recently but we have some concerned about the project. It seems that during the last two months you have been struggling with your workload and some delays have occurred. Maybe your position does not allow you to fulfill your potential here. Of course what you did before was great but it seems you have reached a bottle neck. Did you think about reconsidering your position in the company and look for something more in line with your aspirations?
French version:
Yes Jean, Come in. So what’s going on? You have been doing bugger all during the last two months and now the project is delayed! You started well, but we made a mistake by appointing you to this position. It’s too difficult for you and you don’t have the skills. I think you should look for another job.
Thai Version
Sawatdii khrap Khun Somchai, come in please, take a seat. Would you like some cold water? I am sorry to ask you to come during your lunch break but I wanted to talk to you about something important. You have done a good job recently and we think we should give you a promotion to the directorate. You have the skills the company need and we can ask someone else to do the tedious work you are doing. I think you will like it.
In all cases, John/Jean/Somchai is out of the way and someone else can take the job!
~R
May 29th, 2007 at 7:35 am
I’ve been living in BKK for about two years now, having moved from NY, and can see how it goes both ways. Even though I am half-Thai, I don’t believe that exempts me disliking how some things are done here in Thailand. I just think it’s a combination of your own experiences and how that plays-out in the context of being a foreigner. There are always going to be realities to living on one place versus another that may not always be ideal. Think about what inspires people to leave and or stay in their home country.
May 29th, 2007 at 8:08 am
hahahha, I like your example roger!
May 29th, 2007 at 8:08 am
Quite amusing, Roger.
Personally, I like the French way the best – no room for doubt.
May 29th, 2007 at 9:20 am
I think a lot of people here are either unaware of the irony they exude when referring to Thai people collectively as arrogant.
“LS” puts it best.
May 29th, 2007 at 9:24 am
Roger-
I have to admit that was funny. But things must have changed in Europe. I would have switched the British and French positions.
May 29th, 2007 at 9:38 am
It made me chuckle too. I think in Britain it would be worded so as to offer a slight glimmer of false hope (“We’ll keep your file on record in case something more suitable comes up”) while firmly closing the door at the same time.
May 29th, 2007 at 9:53 am
Roger, thanks. Hmm, I like the French way, I am surprised, I thought that would have been more the british way, that open bluntness. My sterotype thought that French are more “discreet”, that was some hard truths in your example. I like your parody, if only those bugger French did speak a bit of English and I might try a career move there. I like things blunt and in your face, no bs. :) Hmm, maybe French-British combination is even better! :) (But along the lines of Eurotunnel that is :-P)
May 29th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Oh no no, meant to say “But NOT along the lines of Eurotunnel”, British-French teamwork just wont work! ;)
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Having lived here for more than 25 years, I have seen a lot of changes…not all of them for the good. The biggest problem I see for foreigners living here is that we will never be Thai, no matter how hard we try. I know a few foreigners who have got Residency, and even a couple who have Thai citizenship. But they are still ‘farung’. Until this changes, nothing will change for foreigners. We will always be the interlopers. I am writing a fictional book based on historic reality in the time of King Narai. Constantine Phaulkon, a Greek, became one of the most powerful ministers in the Siamese court. He had the ear of King Narai, who gave him the title, Pra Wichien. But in the end, the greed and jealousy of the Thai nobles won through and they chopped his head off. There is a lesson in this for all of us. Keep your head down, do whatever you like as long as you stay out of the sight of Thai officials. And don’t piss off the Thais. Why criticize them? You know they won’t listen. Just live your life your way and ignore the rest. Visit my blog for more…. http://www.holtblog.holtww.com
November 3rd, 2007 at 7:24 am
If alot of Thai people went to your country and complained about everything as if the place existed for them to like, you would be annoyed too. In Western tradition, you believe that talking about issues leads to positive change. However, it is not your country, you can’t change it, and insulting the system of monarchy is insulting the culture. If you are too stupid too understand that, then you most certainly don’t understand Thailand.
You ask why foreigners “aren’t able to express their opinions”. Just because there are some things you can’t say in public doesn’t mean you are in an Orwell novel. If a Thai person started loudly espousing Nazi beliefs in public, or in a Jewish restaurant, you would see that your ideas are limited in a similar way.
I’ll put it more simply. Farang countries threatened Thai independence in the past. So if you’re a farang and you threaten the sanctity (maybe one wouldn’t understand Thai culture becasue you don’t quite grasp that word, even in your own language) of the monarchy by questioning it, you are continuing that tradition. In that light, farang go home indeed.
Thailand is not the West, and your absolutist ideas of the absolute superiority of unlimited free speech and the right to insult are much more ignorant than Eastern traditions of restraint and respect, which you obviously do not understand if you’re still complaining.
November 3rd, 2007 at 8:56 am
Thai people do go to my country and complain.
November 4th, 2007 at 3:25 am
And English people, or whatever your country people you are, would be within their rights to say “go home if you don’t like it”. Now try reversing the historic roles of cultural imperialism, and imagine Thai ex-patriates complaining in that regard. It is a difficult scenario to imagine, but in that situation the complaining would certainly tickle more (put your nationality here) sensibilities. Also, I’m going to make a wild guess that your country has a tradition of welcoming Asian immigrants. Thailand doesn’t have a tradition of welcoming European immigrants (evidently it doesn’t want one ;)
November 4th, 2007 at 3:28 am
On another note, I believe that ex-patriates in Thailand or anywhere else should recognize the difference between complaining and insulting a culture. If you won’t respect the native Thai sensibilities about that, then farang go home.
November 4th, 2007 at 5:24 am
But making observations about a country doesn’t mean that we don’t like the country. I have a new camera and I can find many faults with it, but I still use it and am happy with it.
November 4th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
As I said in my first post, Thai people probably also don’t like you acting as if the country existed for you to like /:
November 4th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Make your observations, then. Just don’t bother people with them, or insult the monarchy. It’s the preconception of many East Asian countries that many people (lone Westerners especially) who are rejects in their own countries go to live in the Orient. Getting your country commented on by people who are rejects in their own countries is annoying.
Don’t think I’m saying I believe that the Westerners who go to Thailand are rejects. That’s only a common preconception. (Like the preconception that Thai people will care if you like to use their country)…
November 4th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
I think I got blocked from this blog…
November 5th, 2007 at 1:20 am
OK. Let’s let this one slide now. I wrote this post in May.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
OK. I didn’t mean to double-post, anyways. Good luck in ex-pat life, I never assumed you’re low-life or anything.
November 8th, 2007 at 2:00 am
No worries. No harm done.
April 21st, 2008 at 5:34 am
I read many blogs/websites from farangs in Thailand. Many discuss complaints from Thais regarding farang. I basically try to walk a mile in their shoes, and then move on to other things. If I was a Thai, made a fraction of what farang earned, observed many birdshit/cheap charlie/gwun theen/(insert favorite thai insult here) farang abusing my country, criticizing but remaining here nonetheless, I would probably hold a lot of resentment.
As a fellow Farang, I can see this myself. I have been in Pattaya for eight months, and have been in Bangkok for two or three. In Pattaya, there are countless numbers of drunked street trash farang guys, mostly 40+ in age, heavily tattooed, ugly as sin, who, yes, would probably be considered “rejects” back in their home country.
I played a game one day with a Thai friend. We took my video camera to walking street and sat at an open bar facing the pedestrian traffic. The object of the game was to “find the beautiful farang man”. After many, many hours of video taping, we simple could not find an attractive farang guy. My hypothesis is most attractive farang men don’t have to go to Pattaya, they are already getting what they want back home.
As for Bangkok, when I think of farang there, images of Khao san Road backpacker trash fill my head. Unclean, neo-hippy, dope-smoking teenager types clad in pro-environment gear and birkenstocks or tevas, filled with overly idealistic ideas about the world. If I was a poor Thai and saw a youngster like this I would wonder how they ever got the my to fly halfway across the world to complain about the food, weather, sanitary conditions, etc. of my own country and tell me how they would change it all if they were in charge.
While you bleeding-heart, “free thinking”
liberals may wince at what I am saying, I am merely describing a stereotype which may be used by the Thais as equally as it would be used in Farang countries. It was always my gut feeling that men like this came to the East because they can get girls and beer here easier than they can at home. And the older guys come to live here (semi)permanently because here they can live like nobles on their meager little pensions, but would otherwise have to live as peasants in their own countries.
As for the backpackers, it is my gut feeling many want to party, get high, etc., and many think there is something mystical about the Orient, and that it is an answer to all of their “Western” woes. It’s some kind of syndrome you get when you are leaving your teenage years but not quite at adulthood yet. I see many youngsters in Khao San Road who are absolutely enthralled by the “culture” they see there because it is new an novel to them (as opposed to the “culture” they loathe back in their own homes because it is old and familiar). What these kids don’t understand is most of those people dispening “traditional Thai culture” are just there to make money. Any interest and/or kindness displayed is only proportional to the amount of baht the farang backpackers are willing to shell out.
I think we, as Westerners, have to keep in mind these people are comparatively poor, have much less education, and consequently much narrower views of the world. It is no coincidence farang travelers are granted an immediate 30 day visa upon arrival in Thailand while most Asian residents must undergo strict visa application processes to visit our countries.
So if they make criticizing comments perhaps it is best to simply nod your head, be understanding, and let them go.
They don’t know that in your country you are not a king, and have to work just like everyone else. Frankly, given their poverty, they don’t even feel sorry for you when you try to tell them about all your problems (mortgages, taxes, job woes, etc.) because, after all, you’re the one standing in their country with a fistful of crispy, new 1000 baht notes equivalent to several months salary for them.
I can imagine if some rich oil tycoon from Dubai came to your town and complained to you about how much it costs to park his private jet. Would you be sympathetic?
May 5th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Wow!
What a roller coaster of a ride…
I managed to hold on through all the twists and turns whilst my mind and opinions shifted from one direction to the other, finally i made it to the end and here i am… anxious and with no resolutions…
Perhaps there is no Black nor White with any argument nor Moral disposition such as this one, especially with such huge International and cultural divides?
All i can see is a multitude of shades and opinions which at this point i find it very hard to even form my own opinion without seeing it from anothers too…
The mind just tries to grasp what it can and form some sense of opinion which it may use in its primitive attempt for understanding, or lack of which it has in this world where in truth – Nothing is permanent, and opinions and views will always be ever changing like the monkey mind it is…
Perhaps it would be futile and perhaps narrow minded to assume otherwise, but here we are – stamping our opinions and righteousness on the World in an attempt to better it…
I have lived in Thailand for almost 6 Years as the (dumb Farang) and yet it feels more like 20 for me these days.
I remember the mind i had back in my Khaosarn road days and all those views of Thailand and what i would find here…
Then to reflect on who i have become now “with my big business and my Trophy Thai Wife” living a comfortable life as the “quiet outsider”
In my years here I have had many so called Thai friends, but usually my opinionated ways and my “why?” attitude leaves me with er….
Well Absolutely NO Thai friends….
But, I have learn’t that in order to get what i want here, i have to just smile and keep my aggression and Wit tamed, then behind closed doors i can bitch about them to my Trophy wife who will get upset with me and just reply
“Get out of Thailand farang- go home”
Yes, even my wife says the exact same words. LOL
They must all have came from the same Toy factory i guess…
So, after 6 years i still have no “True friends” and i certainly would not consider my wife even to be a TRUE FRIEND.
After all, if she cannot accept my need to express opinions behind closed doors, well what are we exactly? Or what am i becoming?
I guess i don’t see why i should be dictated in to propaganda and be told how to act and think which is exactly what they are taught, and when they are taught it they try to teach it to us…
But in my needs to live a peaceful and conflict Free life (with her) I have learnt it is sometimes just to keep your mouth shut and keep all your opinions and Western ways hidden.
And so.. to turn the 3 dimensional coin…
What do we Love about Thailand exactly?
I have an awful suspicion that maybe the very things we Love about Thailand will end when the things we dislike about Thailand are resolved….
Yes, corruption, poverty, narrow mindedness, primitive thinking, passiveness, and all the above all have positives too…
The fact that Thai’s tolerate just about anything and one of their worst insults is about as childish as calling somebody “white bird shit” is well ….
In my opinion (laughing) its a lot nicer than living in some UK Slum council estate, where the average insult is to get stabbed for just looking at someone or actually having a job, or a new pair of shoes.
The truth is, Thailand is changing drastically now…
Its growth in the last 2 years is moving so fast and the prices have hit an all time High, how long will it be before Thailand soon becomes, well…
Just like home?
The Class divides will expand as Oil prices,Tax inflation rises and more and more desperation will prevail, but will that placid Thai Nature (The one that hates to criticize) prevent them from becoming just another restless and aggressive nation eager to escape where they are living?
We as Westerners are FREE to express opinions and criticize, but i can still see Iraq and Afghanistan and free speech amounting to very little when it actually came against the powers that be…
I can still see the Free speech Media like the so called “Sun” Daily Mirror” or the paparazzi doing huge harm more than opening minds and making positive changes…
Whilst we Westerners have grown as people whom idolize Pop stars, footballers, Business men, and Film stars, the Thais up until recent times have paid much respect to Monks, Buddhism and of course the Monarchy .
The reason Thais are as they are, perhaps much related to the fact that they grow up with rather positive role Models, such as Monks or the King who does in my opinion have admirable qualities.
Infact, have absolutely no doubt this is nothing but a good thing.
So…
Be Careful What You Wish For ( Dumb Intellectual Farangs)
Because For every equal there exists an opposite…
Peace!@
May 7th, 2008 at 12:58 am
I lived in Thailand for a number of years, leaving only to further my studies to become a better teacher to the kids that deserve it..
I did notice that complaints were not received well but it depends to whom you address them too. Often I discussed politics with Thai friends and rarely did they get upset, we discussed.. Perhaps this is because I had the foresight to know that the Monarchy is not up for discussion, and the fact I actually like it.
In fact in my meetings with other Farang I felt almost Thai in my view of them being ‘kii nok’ or ‘farang now’ (rotten). I encountered more alcoholics and pedophiles in a town with 30 farang than in all my years in Australia. There are many a whinger living in Pratet Thai, that maybe shouldn’t be there..
There will be things in every country one does not agree with, but until we grasp the polarity of the cultural differences we encounter and how deep they run into the thoughts and opinions of the locals, perhaps we should hold our tongues.
And Dj…. “primitive thinking”?????? You are clearly not understanding anything Thai at all.. Such an ethnocentric and social-darwinist point of view will only hinder your life in Thailand, I suggest you go home.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:08 am
er, sorry to leave a crude example, but it’s like using the word n*gg*r, only blacks can use it to each other. In other words, only Thais can criticise (and even then, only in the very intricate Thai way). The principle of it is if u cant say anything nice, say nothing applies to farangs.
yes life is not fair.
July 10th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
We could go round and round talking about perceptions. However, there are actual facts that we can discuss. We can discuss historiography
http://kyotoreview.cseas.kyoto-u.ac.jp/issue/issue2/article_251.html
“What is today consumed as history by the Thai public consists of two forms: the royalist-nationalist history taught in the schools and popularized through bureaucratic channels; and products of the commercial media in the form of movies, TV dramas, and even advertisements, which are gradually becoming the dominant mode of reproduction of historical knowledge.”
We can discuss unforgivable dismissal of atrocities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_October_1976_Massacre
We can discuss these things because we possess a critical sensibility. A thing more precious and rare than you might think…..
I’m sorry, any way you cut it the fact remains that the Thai people have had modernization forced upon them. As a people, they have not changed significantly in hundreds of years. They have no idea where or who they are. A client state of the US, their principle mandate is to serve as a staging platform for military and economic ventures in Southeast Asia. Ultimately, not that hard to figure out, though at times the severity of their ignorance is hard to stomach.
Another interesting article:
http://www.europe-solidaire.org/spip.php?article4132
Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
September 18th, 2008 at 2:09 am
pytheas301, thank you for pointing out the articles. I have been fumbling around finding my way in its history. I was working my way up in that direction on my own, the articles you suggested just gave me a big boost.
Your point “they have no idea where or who they are, except a client state of the US” is a gem (for me).
It seems you have both the knowledge and the no-nonsense style of delivering. I would love to read more of yours.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:36 am
This is a great post. It helps us understand the sad irony that is Thailand; a xenophobic country that has sold itself out to foreign influence where there is money to be made, yet unable to absorb any kind of outside criticism. I am Thai yet fail to grasp the ignorance of some of my countrymen. These are the same people who berate the poor for being ignorant, uneducated and unable to vote, yet are unable to intelligently debate the obvious shortcomings of their country in a fair and reasoned manner.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:04 am
I cant understand why farangs complain all the time, yet they put up with stupid border runs and ridiculously horrible teaching jobs to stay somewhere they appear to hate. Maybe the comment above “because they’re nothing else but a piece of shit in their own country” hit the nail on the head.
A lot of these guys suddenly become hunks desired by 1,000s of women when they step off the plane at the airport in Bangkok and it goes to their head. Many of them don a shirt and tie and believe they are somebody educated and important (not the uneducated navvies they were back home), when in fact they are playing the game of greedy backward schools who use them in the most pathetic, badly organised, amateur rip-off of an EFL scene in the whole world.
Please Thailand keep these losers here, coz they aint wanted back home.