So nice not being there anymore. Not having to listen to the continual xenophobic anti-foreigner rantings of Thais is quite refreshing. Can’t say I miss a single thing about Thailand. Debate with Thais is pointless, they’re always right.

Especially the older-generation Thais had an expression for white foreigners, namely “farang khi nok”, which translates as “bird shit foreigner.” People in their 30ties still remember that as kids, on sighting a foreigner, they would run after him yelling “farang khi nok, farang khi nok.” Lovely, isn’t it? That’s why I mostly dress “properly” and not in t-shirts and short pants, and I drink water from the bottle by using a straw, etc. Also, my Thai girlfriend does not like to be seen with a “farang khi nok.” Mind you, social status is extremely important with the Thais. Small wonder that Thais, being as defensive as they mostly are, do not suffer criticism gladly from such farang. In one of my first lessons in Thai at the Union Language School, our teacher told us, “Frankly speaking, the Thais don’t like farang.” But then, there are also the “jek” (Chinese Thai) who they equally dislike, only that they have Thai citizenship.

I don’t live in Thailand, but the issue is no different from what I have seen in India. Commnities are very sensitive to criticism by ‘outsiders’. In India which has a great amount of diversity from region to region, you can see this manifest itself when someone from one community critiques another one.

There is a point that you have to consider:

You can not indeed understand Christian if you have no knowledge of what Christianity is (or Islam or whatever). Generally, you can not understand a culture if you know nothing about it.

So there is a pre-requisite to criticism, it is that of knowing what you are talking about, at least to some extent.

In this regards, I believe that there are as many Farang who have no idea of what they are talking about when they talk about Thailand (and there was a very good article about it two days ago in The Nation) that there are Thai who don’t know what they are talking about when they criticise Farangs.

This being said and assuming we are in a knowledgeable company, Many Thais are open to hear what you have to say if you say it the right way, that is a Thai way. And I find that personally admirable that if you know the culture then you are able to convey the cristicsim in a way that will not offense your interlocutor and in a way he will understand.

Personally, being between 3 cultures (French, British and Thai) I alway surprise myself when I have to say to a Brit horrible things that I would say in a very different way if I was talking to a French (And believe me it would be very different!).

The same is true when I talked to Thaia. If you want to avoid the knee jerk reaction, then say it the Thai way, and at the same time you will be able to demonstrate that you know what you are talking about. Even if they don’t verbally acknowledge what you say, they are not deaf. Learn to recognize unspoken agreement!

~R

HAHAHHAHA.

Matt, you’re mental if you think this is a debatable topic.
You cannot criticize the Thais in any way shape, or form without an insane backlash. You should know this by now.
No matter how intelligent your opinions are, and no matter how intelligent the Thai you are talking to is.

Either way, it doesn’t matter. Thailand is heading for the shitter and I’m so fed up with these prehistoric attitudes that I’m actually secretly rooting against it.

It’s always a nice feeling to be told to shut the fuck up when you mention that you’re concerned about freedoms of press and internet censorship…. just because you’re a foreigner…. even though you’re resident and paying tax.

Do you know why? They don’t give a fucking shit what you think. You will always be another dumbass farang. Even your ‘closest’ friends will always regard you this way.

Just learn to deal with it, and more importantly, learn to profit of it.

What a nice journal entry and the inputs that has followed from it. :) Also I appreaciate Roger input, I would personally love to hear someway more about these different glasses that you personally need to use between British, French and Thais for example. As I believe that this is invaluable information if one wants to make changes and contribute in for example these three business environments. I haven’t found any material, you know “101 on getting message thru in Thai business”, that would really help so that one don’t have to learn these things personally by trial-and-error…And what you Roger mention is perfect example and thing to keep in mind: When you change those “glasses”, you are still the same person, thinkin’ the same, trying to get the same results (for example change management and consturctive critisism). This doesn’t mean that one gives up in his or her values or reconsiling so that one would sacrifice your values or goals. In fact, this should NOT happen if you want to instigate change when you really know what you try to for example do is the “right thing”, unlike some might see it. There is old example, apostle Paul if I remember correctly, from Bible, who once said: “I became Roman for Romans and Greek to Greeks”, he tried to say that he didn’t give up of his beliefs, but instead to get his message thru he tried to speak to Romans and Greeks in their own terms, own “language”. This is one old example of cultural exhange and learning eh…:) Fits for many situations, sometimes one gotta give up on the “hard line” but without sacrifising what you are deep inside and what your “goals” are.

I’ve been living in BKK for about two years now, having moved from NY, and can see how it goes both ways. Even though I am half-Thai, I don’t believe that exempts me disliking how some things are done here in Thailand. I just think it’s a combination of your own experiences and how that plays-out in the context of being a foreigner. There are always going to be realities to living on one place versus another that may not always be ideal. Think about what inspires people to leave and or stay in their home country.

Quite amusing, Roger.
Personally, I like the French way the best - no room for doubt.

Roger-

I have to admit that was funny. But things must have changed in Europe. I would have switched the British and French positions.

Roger, thanks. Hmm, I like the French way, I am surprised, I thought that would have been more the british way, that open bluntness. My sterotype thought that French are more “discreet”, that was some hard truths in your example. I like your parody, if only those bugger French did speak a bit of English and I might try a career move there. I like things blunt and in your face, no bs. :) Hmm, maybe French-British combination is even better! :) (But along the lines of Eurotunnel that is :-P)

Having lived here for more than 25 years, I have seen a lot of changes…not all of them for the good. The biggest problem I see for foreigners living here is that we will never be Thai, no matter how hard we try. I know a few foreigners who have got Residency, and even a couple who have Thai citizenship. But they are still ‘farung’. Until this changes, nothing will change for foreigners. We will always be the interlopers. I am writing a fictional book based on historic reality in the time of King Narai. Constantine Phaulkon, a Greek, became one of the most powerful ministers in the Siamese court. He had the ear of King Narai, who gave him the title, Pra Wichien. But in the end, the greed and jealousy of the Thai nobles won through and they chopped his head off. There is a lesson in this for all of us. Keep your head down, do whatever you like as long as you stay out of the sight of Thai officials. And don’t piss off the Thais. Why criticize them? You know they won’t listen. Just live your life your way and ignore the rest. Visit my blog for more…. http://www.holtblog.holtww.com

Thai people do go to my country and complain.

On another note, I believe that ex-patriates in Thailand or anywhere else should recognize the difference between complaining and insulting a culture. If you won’t respect the native Thai sensibilities about that, then farang go home.

As I said in my first post, Thai people probably also don’t like you acting as if the country existed for you to like /:

I think I got blocked from this blog…

OK. I didn’t mean to double-post, anyways. Good luck in ex-pat life, I never assumed you’re low-life or anything.

I read many blogs/websites from farangs in Thailand. Many discuss complaints from Thais regarding farang. I basically try to walk a mile in their shoes, and then move on to other things. If I was a Thai, made a fraction of what farang earned, observed many birdshit/cheap charlie/gwun theen/(insert favorite thai insult here) farang abusing my country, criticizing but remaining here nonetheless, I would probably hold a lot of resentment.

As a fellow Farang, I can see this myself. I have been in Pattaya for eight months, and have been in Bangkok for two or three. In Pattaya, there are countless numbers of drunked street trash farang guys, mostly 40+ in age, heavily tattooed, ugly as sin, who, yes, would probably be considered “rejects” back in their home country.

I played a game one day with a Thai friend. We took my video camera to walking street and sat at an open bar facing the pedestrian traffic. The object of the game was to “find the beautiful farang man”. After many, many hours of video taping, we simple could not find an attractive farang guy. My hypothesis is most attractive farang men don’t have to go to Pattaya, they are already getting what they want back home.

As for Bangkok, when I think of farang there, images of Khao san Road backpacker trash fill my head. Unclean, neo-hippy, dope-smoking teenager types clad in pro-environment gear and birkenstocks or tevas, filled with overly idealistic ideas about the world. If I was a poor Thai and saw a youngster like this I would wonder how they ever got the my to fly halfway across the world to complain about the food, weather, sanitary conditions, etc. of my own country and tell me how they would change it all if they were in charge.

While you bleeding-heart, “free thinking”
liberals may wince at what I am saying, I am merely describing a stereotype which may be used by the Thais as equally as it would be used in Farang countries. It was always my gut feeling that men like this came to the East because they can get girls and beer here easier than they can at home. And the older guys come to live here (semi)permanently because here they can live like nobles on their meager little pensions, but would otherwise have to live as peasants in their own countries.

As for the backpackers, it is my gut feeling many want to party, get high, etc., and many think there is something mystical about the Orient, and that it is an answer to all of their “Western” woes. It’s some kind of syndrome you get when you are leaving your teenage years but not quite at adulthood yet. I see many youngsters in Khao San Road who are absolutely enthralled by the “culture” they see there because it is new an novel to them (as opposed to the “culture” they loathe back in their own homes because it is old and familiar). What these kids don’t understand is most of those people dispening “traditional Thai culture” are just there to make money. Any interest and/or kindness displayed is only proportional to the amount of baht the farang backpackers are willing to shell out.

I think we, as Westerners, have to keep in mind these people are comparatively poor, have much less education, and consequently much narrower views of the world. It is no coincidence farang travelers are granted an immediate 30 day visa upon arrival in Thailand while most Asian residents must undergo strict visa application processes to visit our countries.

So if they make criticizing comments perhaps it is best to simply nod your head, be understanding, and let them go.

They don’t know that in your country you are not a king, and have to work just like everyone else. Frankly, given their poverty, they don’t even feel sorry for you when you try to tell them about all your problems (mortgages, taxes, job woes, etc.) because, after all, you’re the one standing in their country with a fistful of crispy, new 1000 baht notes equivalent to several months salary for them.

I can imagine if some rich oil tycoon from Dubai came to your town and complained to you about how much it costs to park his private jet. Would you be sympathetic?

I lived in Thailand for a number of years, leaving only to further my studies to become a better teacher to the kids that deserve it..

I did notice that complaints were not received well but it depends to whom you address them too. Often I discussed politics with Thai friends and rarely did they get upset, we discussed.. Perhaps this is because I had the foresight to know that the Monarchy is not up for discussion, and the fact I actually like it.

In fact in my meetings with other Farang I felt almost Thai in my view of them being ‘kii nok’ or ‘farang now’ (rotten). I encountered more alcoholics and pedophiles in a town with 30 farang than in all my years in Australia. There are many a whinger living in Pratet Thai, that maybe shouldn’t be there..

There will be things in every country one does not agree with, but until we grasp the polarity of the cultural differences we encounter and how deep they run into the thoughts and opinions of the locals, perhaps we should hold our tongues.

And Dj…. “primitive thinking”?????? You are clearly not understanding anything Thai at all.. Such an ethnocentric and social-darwinist point of view will only hinder your life in Thailand, I suggest you go home.

We could go round and round talking about perceptions. However, there are actual facts that we can discuss. We can discuss historiography

http://kyotoreview.cseas.kyoto-u.ac.jp/issue/issue2/article_251.html

“What is today consumed as history by the Thai public consists of two forms: the royalist-nationalist history taught in the schools and popularized through bureaucratic channels; and products of the commercial media in the form of movies, TV dramas, and even advertisements, which are gradually becoming the dominant mode of reproduction of historical knowledge.”

We can discuss unforgivable dismissal of atrocities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_October_1976_Massacre

We can discuss these things because we possess a critical sensibility. A thing more precious and rare than you might think…..

I’m sorry, any way you cut it the fact remains that the Thai people have had modernization forced upon them. As a people, they have not changed significantly in hundreds of years. They have no idea where or who they are. A client state of the US, their principle mandate is to serve as a staging platform for military and economic ventures in Southeast Asia. Ultimately, not that hard to figure out, though at times the severity of their ignorance is hard to stomach.

Another interesting article:

http://www.europe-solidaire.org/spip.php?article4132

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!