Unethical Thai journalists should be ashamed of themselves
Siangtai Daily Newspaper, a publication in Southern Thailand, ran a front page headline on Tuesday that read:
Farangsao mao kab!
You don’t have to be advanced in Thai language to know that the headline is telling you that a drunk farang woman was driving her car. Underneath it says that three people died, and beneath that you learn that a father, his daughter and his niece were killed. A tragic story and a powerful headline… until you find out the truth.
A bit of background on how some newspapers in Thailand work: All the journalists who are published in Siangtai are paid based on the how many column inches their stories take up. A bigger story means a bigger paycheque.
Thai journalists working for Thai-language publications don’t work to the same ethical code as Thai journalists working for English-language publications in Bangkok. They have a tendency to sensationalise their stories to make them “bigger” and earn more money.
While it is true that the three people were killed in a road accident, the poor farang woman who has been depicted as a drunk driver by the Thai media may not have been drunk at all. The incident occurred in Phuket at about 8 pm on Monday night. An entire family (husband, wife and two girls) was riding on one motorcycle and collided with a Honda Jazz driven by the woman in question.
At the time Siangtai went to press not much was known about the incident. Police had not interviewed any witnesses and basic facts were yet to be ascertained: Were the people on the bike wearing helmets? Did the Jazz have its lights on? Were any of the parties involved drunk? We didn’t know – nobody did.
The “evidence” found at the scene consisted of a full bottle of spirits in the Honda Jazz. Police who arrived on the scene said that the driver of the Jazz did not appear drunk and they could not smell alcohol on her breath. The Thai journalist, however, ignored all of this and made big bucks by blackening the name of a Canadian expat.
It’s poor journalism and it’s downright immoral. Take what you read in the Thai-language press with a big pinch of salt. It’s a shame that Thailand’s media cannot be trusted.
Techno’ tags: Thailand, Phuket, Journalism, Media
July 19th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
thai newspaper are not newspaper. they are tabloids.
July 19th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Not even tabloids are that bad, this is just a Thai thing. Typical xenophobic Thai attitude - the foreigner is always wrong! And add to that gangs of Thai “men” and soldiers kicking hell out of foreigners in Bangkok (and then following them to hospital and being allowed another kick - 30 against 3!!) and you get the picture of “modern” Thailand, a total cesspit.
God I’m glad I’m not there anymore!!!
July 19th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
What Kitty said!
I recognized that while I was there.. but find it just as obnoxious here. Have you checked out the coverage on Terapon Adhahn in the US? You’d think Thailand was full of nothing more than child killers.
Journalism in most countries is designed to only support its own culture and position. Xenophobic? Tell me where it’s not that way.
:)
Peace,
~Chani
July 19th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
Thanks for the site Lost Boy, I will read it often for I too am lost here somewhere in Thailand. I watch the TV everyday but they really don’t let much on it that I can understand. Unless I need Bloomburg…. Thanks keep it up I will return :)
July 20th, 2007 at 12:20 am
It’s not just the standards of journalism that is a problem in the Thai media. There are a few decent publications but they are far outnumbered by those that blatantly lie in their stories, lie to their advertisers about the number of copies they sell and lie to themsleves by thinking they are going a good job.
Matt - you know the project I am working on. A licensed Thai version of a world-class magazine. I think the fact it took six months to get world-class Thai journalists that were considered good enough by ‘Western’ standards says so much.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:05 am
I totally agree woth you. I’ve never read Siangtai but I read Thai Rath. On rape news , they write if as if they were in the real situation or were the ones who raped the victims. I do hate them.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:48 am
You’re barking at the “victims” too! You said so yourself that these newspapers pay by the inch of space taken up. It should be the PUBLISHERS to be hit — not the journalists, who are just trying to make a living.
I don’t even understand why you buy such tabloids. But hey, it’s good entertainment sometimes. That’s all the tabloids are for — entertainment. Never a reliable source.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:07 am
I believe all of it! How could you doubt? I believe everything I hear in this country because I know Thai people would never, EVER lie to me! If you stay long-time you know. Thais are morally incapable of lying. It just isn’t in their genes. Please think about that next time you write something so horrible about a Thai person, even a journalist! ;) Vern
July 20th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Pisanu, it’s my job to read them. I don’t buy them. And just because they’re trying to make a living doesn’t mean they need to lie.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
It is a new day; it is another nitpicky subject.
We should read the Sun or The Mirror.
Maybe?
July 20th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Matt, you’re banging your head against a wall mate. Even the slightest hint of negativity towards anything Thai will get you shot down by Thais and butt-kissing foreigners alike. The culture of nodding passively in approval to everything remains prevalent.
Do you still have plans to move on to Australia? Life outside the great dictatorship isn’t quite as bad as they’d have you believe. It’s like suddenly getting a great gulp of fresh air once you get out. I strongly recommend it for the sake of sanity.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
I’m working my way south. I’m enjoying the job I have right now and want to stick it out for a year or so, and then I’d like to go to Indonesia and then on to Aus. That’s the idea anyway. Wouldn’t mind a visit back to the motherland too!
July 20th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
The British press probably never falsifies a story, of course. Then again when you search a phrase such as “The mirror hoax scandal” on the BBC website, you will accidentally come across the news about the former Mirror editor Piers Morgan sacked over the fabricated photos of prisoners abused in Iraq.
Maybe a so-called fluent writer ought to look into his attitude first before latching onto a story.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
There is nothing “so-called” about my fluency in English. I am English, it’s my native tongue. Also, Piers Morgan was sacked in a scandal, which shows he did something wrong. It also shows that there is a line that even the British tabloids cannot cross. My attitude has nothing to do with this.
I’m really not sure why you are having such a go at me. How is this nitpicking? A woman was labeled a drunk-driving killer on the front page of a newspaper. Do you really value Thailand’s media so little?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:58 am
Thats awful… Great you wrote this post.. that poor, poor farang woman. No only did she cause and accident which, in it self is bed enough, now she has been slandered by the media. Yes, media like this sucks !!
July 21st, 2007 at 8:29 am
Sooksiam, you really should read the facts first. Piers Morgan didn’t fabricate anything at all. He was presented with fake photos which he used in good faith. Only after did it emerge that he had been the victim of a hoax, and a very sinister one at that.
I’m not defending The Mirror, or any of the British tabloid press, but remember, at least they have the freedom to print what they do. Thailand doesn’t enjoy any such freedom, unless of course it is the freedom to victimize and slander innocent foreigners - which is accepted from the very top of the system right the way down to the level of Sooksiam.
If you are Thai, and I perhaps doubt it, then it’s understandable that you will never accept any wrong-doing from a Thai or your “wonderful” Thai system, as you’ve been programmed from an early age never to question anything Thai. Perfection through ignorance!
Keep up the good work Matt!!
July 21st, 2007 at 8:34 am
I need to read up on that Mirror scandal. I can’t really remember everything about it. But anyway, yes, I stand by my point.
July 21st, 2007 at 4:55 pm
When did I say that Thais never did anything wrong? I do not think Thailand is such a wonderful place either; just as with Australian society maybe, if you are an Aussie. I will deal with your attitude later, but I am going to tend to the writer’s nitpicky subject first.
It is always sad to hear that people get killed on the road in Thailand. As a matter of fact, road accidents are the second most common cause of death in Thailand. Should not everybody feel sorry for the deceased people? Amazingly, the writer deftly turned the tragedy of the victims around by tackling the unethical issue of the press instead. As I said earlier, foreign press never sensationalises a story, of course.
For the poor farang woman, whether she was drunk when she drove her car into that family or not, she certainly is going to deal with her guilt for the rest of her life, the wave of guilt is going to keep assaulting her conscience forever, if she knows what the word means. In the mean time, the distraught lady, at the moment, does not even know that her tragic story is being used as a tool to attack innocent people. I wonder what would happen if the dead people were farangs and the poor driver was Thai. I bet the writer would not hesitate to tackle the story differently; it would definitely be a big deal.
Back to LOE’s unbelievable attitude; isn’t it funny to know that he or she keeps going round and finding fault with other people? I would like to ask what makes you so concerned with other people’s business. I bet Aussies, if you are one, probably never do anything wrong, of course. I hardly see any Thai person bossing Aussies around and latching onto your people’s business. Again, this is quite common for a person who has a problem with his or her insecurity.
If you check back the origin of LOE’s country, you will come across the dark spot of your ancestors too. Attacking other people is another way to compensate your guilt, I suppose. I feel so sorry for what happened to the native Australian: the aboriginal people. Take what happened to them on the island of Tasmania for example. I strongly suggest LOE visits the museum on the island sometime. There is quite a marvellous story about what LOE’s ancestors did to the native people on the island. It is a jaw-dropping real story.
When you accused other people of being xenophobic, you are telling yourself who you are. In all probability, it is LOE’s special skill to label someone as this and that. At least, Thai people are not going to commit “race warfare” against immigrants like some Aussies did in 2005. Try to search “Riots shock Australian press” on the BBC website, you will come across the spectacular news of the so-called civilised Australians.
“Images of brawling youths are splashed across the front pages of all Australian newspapers, with headlines crying “shame”, “race warfare” and “blood on the beach”.
Many see the fighting between youths of European and Middle Eastern origins in the beach resort of Cronulla as a challenge to Australia’s image as a modern and open society at ease with itself.”
I dislike doing tit-for tats, but sometimes, I need to make my point. It is a self-defence mechanism of human beings to react when an outsider rudely launches a diatribe so as to attack them. I do not think you will appreciate it either if some dingbat Thais stick their noses in and tell what you should do with your own problem. Again, only LOE is qualified to do so.
;o)
July 21st, 2007 at 5:12 pm
I’ve said all I want to say about this. If anyone else has any comments they’d be appreciated here.
July 21st, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Sooksiam, why is that anytime anybody is critical about Thailand, you immediately go into defensive mode?
This is a website about Thailand, not about England or Australia or the US or Timbuktu.
I suggest that you go to websites that discuss England, Australia, and the US and see how much criticism does go on by both natives and foreigners concerning those respective countries. If you don’t know, it is quite a bit. There are literally tens of thousands of blogs that criticize farang politics and farang media.
Compared with what goes on in the farang blogosphere, what foreigners say about Thailand in the English language blogs is insignificant, especially with the terrorism in the South and coup happening right now.
My attitude is that not enough people care about what is happening in Thailand. There should be more complaining!! Nothing is going to progress if people just stick their heads in the sand like you and hope for the best.
And if you don’t like all the negative attention that Thailand is getting, then why don’t you start a blog either refuting what is being said(if it is untruthful) or have a positive uplifting blog that only publicizes Thailand’s virtues. I’d certainly read it.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Sooksiam
Matt was making a point about journalism standards. Unfortunately the system appears to encourage dubious reporting of events. There is an old joke about a journalist who, when asked what he tells his mother about what he does for a living, replies that he tells her he is a piano player in a brothel.
Enjoyed your high handed lecture on Australian history. No doubt you are an authority on other 18th century European powers colonial history. Or any other period of history for that matter. 21st century standards are just that & irrelevant to any other time. Anything else is fatuous navel gazing.
As fror the Cronulla riot perhaps you would like to read up on events prior & subsequent to that day. I doubt you will though as you will find many of the facts inconvenient.
Btw I don’t condone what happened but I can understand it.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:20 am
Sawaddee Fonzi! How is your relative? I hope he/she is improving.
Wind you up later ok?
Take care
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:20 am
Sooksiam, I didn’t bother doing much more than scan your little rant there as I am not Australian! Sorry to have wasted so much of your valuable time, or maybe you just have a problem with Australians anyway. Not quite sure where I said I was an Australian, clearly a case of you reading something that is not there. I’ve never made a secret of my nationality, as most people who read this regularly might know. And just so you can go and dig up some more ancient facts from wikipedia and make me out to be a racist I’ll tell you, my ancestry is English, Welsh, Jewish, French, Polish and possibly Russian. There you go, that should keep your little mind busy for a while. Hey, Jewish blood! You could really go to town on that one, maybe drag up a few world domination conspiracy theories too.
Like Fonzi said, this is a blog primarily about Thailand and the things that occur in Thailand, so it’s not really that strange that there are comments about Thailand. But of course for Thais, and a certain breed of foreign man who resides in Thailand, criticism of Thailand, Thais or anything remotely to do with Thailand is a big no-no. Maybe you’d care to share your nationality with us, or is it you who has the insecurities? My guess is you’re a Brit or American. But then surely you wouldn’t call yourself sooksiam if you were? Or would you?
Just for the record I am not perfect, far from it, and I’ve NEVER claimed to be anything even similar to perfect. I’m riddled with faults like most people and I come from a great country that I’m proud of (I know it’s terribly unfashionable for a Brit to be proud of being a Brit) despite a history littered with both highs and lows. I feel justified in making comment on Thailand because it was my home for so long, my wife is Thai (Thai/Chinese actually) and I have a daughter who is half. Therefore, like it or not, I will forever have an attachment to the great dictatorship that is Thailand (oh sorry, the idealistic, Utopian, peace loving nation of the free people of Thailand).
Fonzi is right, people need to stand up and complain when things are wrong, that’s how you get change for the good.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:45 pm
My name obviously says who I am.
I never think writing anything in English is wasting my time. In fact, it helps me to improve my writing skill.
Oh! The people who were your ancesters, who also killed the native aboriginal people on the island of Tasmania were Brits, by the way. They even issued a license to kill the poor people as a sport, which is similar to fox hunting in the modern UK; albeit the hunting was banned recently, some people still go on hunting as a sport. Of course, this is a very civilised practice.
I am not suprised that you are not perfect. Everybody is imperfect, including myself. Nonethelss, do you think it is fair to label other people as xenophobic? I guess there is no racial tension in the UK, of course. Maybe you think it is rightly justified to accuse Thai people as foreign haters. Where is the evidence? At least we do not go round and invade other countries like some other countries do. Besides, Thailand has no racist party like the British National Party in the UK either.
Going round and being spiteful to other people is merely another way to release your day-to-day frustration in life. It is typical of a homesick person. I sympathise with you. If you want to make a change, why don’t you launch a formal complaint to the Thai authorities, since you say you feel justified in doing so, because you have been living in the country for so long, instead of taking the hatred out on other people. In all probability, you are just a coward who is full of hot air.
;o)
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Can’t read Thai, so wouldn’t know much about what crap they put in there.
I feel that the basic tendency in Thailand is to blame the “bigger” person in case of an accident.
In this case, foreigner + vehicle owner.
I remember when i was staying in down south, i was driving my pick-up with a Thai staff. It had rained heavily, on the road, we came across a badly damaged bike and a pool of blood. Obviously there had been an accident and the bike driver seriously injured(if not dead). The first reaction from the Thai staff was that “car drive very fast…bike not see”.
@Sooksiam
I don’t feel anyone is telling that only the Thai system is screwed up, each country has its negative points and positive points.
1) Do you agree or not that the Thai Journalist conducted himself in a wrong manner?
2) Do you prefer to give the journalist a pat on the back or would you rather point out his mistakes?
I feel Matt is doing a great job for Thailand by bring this issue out.
When at an Indian site( http://www.thaindian.com ) we initiated a discussion about Indians being rated the worst tourists by European hoteliers, we had 3 types of people in a flame war. One would further criticize Indians, One would criticize us(or the survey authority) for publishing such results and one would say… “Ok. our reputation is bad, how do we improve it?”
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:07 am
Oh Sooksiam, you poor thing, you just can’t seem to get it right for getting it wrong. I’m not in Thailand, I left because I couldn’t stand living there anymore. I don’t feel grateful for my time there because every few months or so I was forced to jump through hoops to get permission to stay for another few months. Being married and having child meant nothing. As a Thai official once barked at me, “You farang, should not be here.” My Thai wife has full residency for this country (the UK), can work here, pay tax, even stand for parliament. These things will NEVER be available to me in Thailand. Also I want my daughter to grow up in a stable country where she is not forced to kowtow to her “betters” and where she can get an education that doesn’t brainwash her and fill her head with outdated crap.
Of course the UK is such a racist place. We have segregation of races here, foreigners are not allowed the same standard of life as locals, illegal immigrants are kept in filthy inhumane camps on the borders, police and soldiers regularly kill these immigrants, foreigners that are married to locals are regularly killed by their British spouses for financial gain, if a local kills a foreigner the sentence is softer than if the victim was local, foreigners regularly have their money removed from them etc etc. Oh, sorry, THIS WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THAILAND!!!
The BNP isn’t a racist party, it’s a nationalist party. In Thailand all the parties have nationalistic tendencies. The last democratically elected party was the Thai Loves Thai party for f’s sake. You said that I should go to the local authorities if I have any suggestions. Presumably this is just a joke, either that or you don’t know your own country (though I’m still not convinced you’re Thai). Foreigners DO NOT HAVE RIGHTS in Thailand.
You should check your history. Thailand has stolen land and continues to do so. Siam was a considerably smaller country than modern Thailand. Through history Thailand, or Siam as it was known once the Tai of southern China created the state, has always stolen land in battle from it’s neighbours. BTW even notable Thai historians are calling for the history books in schools to be re-written to reflect the truth, ie.that Thailand was every bit as aggressive as it’s neighbours.
Every country in the world has committed atrocities, including England. But most of ours are now history. Thailand seems to have some recent atrocities, Tak Bai to name but one.
Check: http://youtube.com/watch?v=fk_ZEuE-70M
and: http://youtube.com/watch?v=2fX-Drjqyps
Oh, of course you might not be able to view those clips as freedom to look at youtube is still not restored in Thailand. But do try and look at those clips in entirity, they make interesting viewing. I’d just love to hear your views. You see, the crap you keep mentioning about Australia and the UK is all in history and happened a long time ago when the world was a different place. But this? This Tak Bai atrocity where so many innocent and unarmed people were slaughtered by laughing soldiers and locals was in the last five years and is real (they even filmed if for fun).
I really think it’s not fair to Matt to keep arguing on his blog. If you want to continue a debate somewhere else I’d be happy to, as long as you can control your little temper and not resort to violence and name calling.
July 24th, 2007 at 1:16 am
Poor thing.
Has he been suffering periods of amnesia? I thought the gentleman was the first person who accused other people as foreign haters. Poor LOE must be one of the 3 farangs who got kicked by those gangs of Thai “men”. That’s why he still holds a grudge against the people. I am deeply sorry for you and hopefully you will fully recover from amnesia someday.
The BNP isn’t a racist party. Really? I am so surprised to hear that. Then again when you search a phrase such as “Going undercover in the BNP ” on the BBC website, you will accidentally come across the news about Nick Griffin gave a speech inciting racial hatred.
“Going undercover is not a task undertaken lightly, especially if your true identity is going to be revealed very publicly on television. Jason Gwynne, whose documentary about the BNP has resulted in shocking footage, describes the ordeal. ”
When will he learn?
;o)
July 24th, 2007 at 6:35 am
Difficult to continue as you seem not to understand what is written in front of you. Regards the name calling, I was referring to you calling me a coward, for some reason (odd when you seem so proud of 30 Thai men beating 3 Brits, isn’t that cowardice?).
You clearly know nothing about this country (I’m in the UK, not Thailand as you continue to imagine) and obviously know nothing about the BNP or the current state of political correctness in the UK. If your warped opinion of the UK is based on your occasional search online then it hardly qualifies you to be critical of the system. My comments about racism in Thailand are based on more than 8 years living there and the fact that I have been on the receiving end of it on numerous occasions.
I notice you chose not to comment on the Tak Bai clips. Who is the one suffering amnesia now? But then isn’t that exactly what the Thai education system teaches; gloss over all unpleasantness. Come on, what’s your excuse for that. And the Thai treatment of refugees, and the way immigrant workers are treated, and the recent alteration of company law regarding foreigners? And on and on. Interestingly Thailand is the only country where I’ve heard the expression “black is bad” actually used, and meant. I know many Thais, from all walks of life, who have said this and make no secret of the fact they utterly despise black people. And I’ve had black friends in Thailand who have suffered miserably because of this attitude. Your comment please.
Shame you can’t reveal your true nationality either. My money is on you being a Brit. I feel sure you’re not Thai. BTW the BNP also has close ties with Sikh and Hindi groups. Can’t be that racist then.
AND, I started patronising you with the “poor thing” comment first, please try to be original.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
First of all, I would like to express my gratitude to you for making me compose this pointless discussion in English. I always welcome the opportunity to practice my English skills. Please bear with my humble English writing since I was not born English; and it is also a little bit difficult for me to articulate my ideas in your language as Thailand has never been colonised by your country, but who knows maybe your country might find an excuse to bully Thailand in the near future. Nonetheless please do not make the allegation that Thailand has weapons of mass destruction unless you can prove it, ok?
I and some of my friends, last night, had a massive celebration party because of your revelation that you had already left Thailand. It was one of the best things I have heard so far. Your departure is going to make my day for quite a while. Thank you so much.
The Tak Bai tragedy occurred during the Thaksin government, whose ideas about human rights you might cherish. It did not happen during the coup. Maybe you should check the facts first. Even though his government was elected, I did not think it was right to treat other human beings like that. So is the case of the immigrant underclass in the UK, I suppose.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6590000/newsid_6594100/6594139.stm?bw=bb&mp=rm&news=1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_4450000/newsid_4457100/4457181.stm?bw=bb&mp=rm&nol_storyid=4457181&news=1
Thailand is the only country where I’ve heard the expression “black is bad”? You must be having a laugh with me. If someone does not like his or her skin to be black, that does not mean he or she is expressing a racist attitude. If I prefer my skin to be white, does that mean I have a tendency to be a racist person? I do not like my skin to be tanned. Does that mean I exert a deep hatred towards a whiter person who likes to tan him/herself on the beach? If someone says that one particular colour is bad, it does not represent the whole attitude of that specific society. Don’t you get it? At the same time, when you accuse Thai people of being xenophobic, your creed does not represent the whole stance of the British public either. Of course, only you are the exception.
I thought I had already told you that my name blatantly displays who I am. Why are you still curious about my identity? I also have an English boyfriend just as you have a Thai wife. I suppose you will still keep latching onto me as a foreign hater now?
All in all, I don’t think you are racist or xenophobic either. In all probability, you are merely a tad “Ting Tong” or “Rok Jit”.
;o)
July 24th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Tiresome now. Try reading before commenting and try to understand what you’re watching on TV.
1 - I know perfectly well when the Tak Bai incident occurred but I seem to remember the government (which went on to be re-elected again with a huge majority) being supported in its actions by the majority of the populace. And why is the fact that Taksin’s government was responsible somehow an excuse for wrong doing?
2 - Watch the clips you linked more carefully and you’ll notice that it was about foreign workers being recruited by foreign gangs in a foreign land for exploitation in the UK, by more foreigners. We have some of the toughest labour laws in the world and worker protection is something to be proud of. Bad things do happen and some still get exploited, but no where is perfect. But to compare worker conditions and protection in Thailand to the UK would show a huge lack of understanding, experience, and a large amount of naivety.
3 - I hope you had a drink for me in your little celebration. I can assure you that my celebration on leaving your Utopian country was greater than anything you could have replicated. I imagine it was akin to being released from a long and arduous prison sentence.
4 - Nobody colonised Thailand because no one ever really wanted to. Why colonise Thailand when it readily capitulated to all demands already? Better to take what it had, with the approval of those in power, and keep it “independent” as a buffer between French and British territory. It’s very fashionable for people like you to talk about how evil we Brits are but you seem to forget it was a British warship that chased all the French ships down the Chao Praya when they came to attack Bangkok, that it was British engineers and cartographers that were the first to map Thailand, that the biggest overseas aid donor to Thailand has been for many years, yes, you guessed it, Britain and that after the tsunami the biggest donation of money in the world came from, ah hum, us Brits (most of which was siphoned off by corrupt Thai officials before it got to the people who really needed it). Not blowing trumpets here just pointing it out to someone who is so clearly blinkered.
5 - The “black is bad” comment was always used by Thai people referring to black people, no mistake. In one incident I was having a drink with a Nigerian friend. He went to the loo and a Thai friend came to “warn” me of the dangers of being friends with black people. You can twist it and make as many silly assumptions as you like but it was straight racism. EVERY incident. And yes, I am aware that not only Thai people are racist but I experienced more racism in Thailand than anywhere in the world. What was it that my ex-finance’s father once shouted at her? Oh yes: I don’t care if you love him, he’s a foreign c##t! Another cultural misunderstanding I guess.
There you go again with your name calling. No, I’m not racist, or even ting-tong. And you have no need to worry about any latching, why would I latch onto anything that is associated with you?
So I guess this is the end of our little rant (unless you’re going to misunderstand what I’ve written and spill more guff). I hope you’re mature enough to know that there hasn’t been any anger involved here. BTW, why don’t you link to your blog when you post comments?
July 25th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
As I said, it is always going to benefit me, albeit it is merely a rant. Thank you again for doing me a good favour by having a rollicking with me in English. I so appreciate your tirade.
Many people in the country strongly disapprove of the killing of the men in the Tak Bai incident. The army action, which was ordered by Thaksin’s administration, did not represent the attitude of the whole population towards the people in that area. In the same way, the killing of Anthony Walker, the young black man in Liverpool, does not illustrate that there are a great deal of racial attacks in the UK, although I am beginning to have a slight doubt after reading some of your comments.
“The racist thugs who murdered Anthony Walker had not intended to go out and kill a black man.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4473860.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4475862.stm
There is racism in every society. I am not going to deny that there is no racial disliking in Thai society. Some Thais surely do not like black, white or brown people like some Brits who have a strong dislike towards an alien who has a different colour on his or her natural outer layer. Yet I think you are wrong to accuse Thais of being racist. At least, there are rarely racially motivated attacks in Thai society. Just because some Thais made a comment about a black person does not mean that those people are racist. Why don’t you look at your own backyard first before accusing anybody?
“Big Brother contestants have been accused of racism in their attacks on housemate Shilpa Shetty. But when does ignorance end and racism begin?”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6275363.stm
I am seriously glad to hear that your departure from the country is making you feel better about yourself, so as the majority of Thai people, I think. As a matter of fact, you should not have gone to the country in the first place. I suppose that a Thai person, maybe your other half, forced you to move to Thailand. If that was the case, I sincerely apologise for your tragic story. Considering your dejected life in that society, you still have a big gift in your life which you brought back from that country. To you, not everything that you associate with Thailand is that bad after all. Don’t you agree?
When will you learn? During the colonialist era, many countries, most European nations, were such big bullies. Going around the world and invading other countries was not a civilised act. I hope you realise that if our ancestors had not sacrificed some areas for the French or the British, the country would have been severely torn apart by now. The reason that those people mapped Thailand was that they wanted to illustrate their ownership of the neighbouring countries. A bully is going to be a bully, you cannot change the fact. Besides, the Thai people did not invite your two nations to be there. Why did they launch a colonialist campaign in the first place?
Talking about the tsunami, I am not going to say that your country has not been generous enough with the catastrophe, but you remember we saved many of Brits’ butts too. Money can come and go, but people’s lives cannot be replaced.
Having read some of your comments about racial tension in Thai society, so far, I gather that you are only making an accusation without providing any solid evidence about your case. I thought when people are too desperate to make allegations about someone or something, they need to make sure that they have some cast-iron smoking guns to support their claims. I guess it might be different in your case. At the same time, I am not at all surprised about your one track minded condemnation. Basically, you are too full of hot air.
For instance, if I want to talk about the fact that the number of people charged with racially aggravated offences rose in the UK last year, I need to be convinced that I am able to include the evidence to support my statement.
“One prosecution involved a man from South Yorkshire throwing a brick through his Muslim neighbour’s window and blaming Muslims for the bombings on the day they went off.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6206140.stm
I guess, too, this might be the end of our heart-to-heart, frivolous invective. I think I am quite mature, but if you think that I am not, you just have to come here and spank me! I also hope that you are mature enough to know that I have nothing against you or any foreigners. People, including you and me, make rash statements from time to time.
All things considered, if I was a father or a mother of a child, I would not want him or her to grow up in a disorganised, unsystematic society too. I hope we can learn a lot from each other, only good things though.
I wish I could link to my blog, but I have not got one yet. Even if I had, you are not going to like what I would say as my mind is so full of raunchy stuff!
;o)
July 25th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Some day I will sit through and read all these comments.
July 25th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
As much as I’d love to continue this it’s very difficult as you don’t have a very good understanding of this country or it’s politics. Seems your knowledge is a very tabloid one.
Briefly though, my comments about Thailand being predominantly racist are all based on fact, and generally personal rather than anecdotal. You clearly have never lived in the UK, or if you did just read one of the tabloids and didn’t pay much attention to reality.
I wasn’t forced to do anything by my wife. I met her there when I worked there many years ago and we lived here. She was homesick for some reason so we both agreed to go back for a while. After a few years here she has full UK status but even after a lifetime in Thailand I would never be more than a second class citizen with no right of abode. This, mixed with many other factors led me to return.
My honest opinion? I like Thailand as a country and think it has enormous potential and could, with the right leadership (ie. neither corrupt nor military), be a serious global player. However, I think that a seriously inward looking attitude, them and us approach towards outsiders, archaic culture and too much bullshit will continue to hold the country back. Sadly it’s the ordinary people who will suffer, as is the case everywhere.
Your attitude on colonisation and Thailand is typically left-wing propagandist bull. If you want to talk about big boys bullying their weaker neighbours then look in the mirror. Thailand continues to prop up and, largely, bankroll the military regime in Burma. And why? For financial gain, pure greed. A free and educated Burma would be a serious threat to Thailand’s economy and competitiveness. Not to mention that the current situation gives them a nice supply of cheap raw materials and an army of slave labour that has no rights whatsoever.
Britain has been enslaved by many others throughout history. When we got into colonisation it was late and largely by accident. We were the last in and just happened to be the best at it, and the had the biggest empire history has seen when the whole imperial thing gave way to a different way of thinking. Result, everyone remembers us and seems to forget we weren’t the only ones (and it wasn’t just Europeans with imperial tendencies, Asian countries and the US also had a good go at it). We were also the last in to the slave trade but the first out and unilaterally imposed a global ban on slaving, but it’s very fashionable just to focus on the fact that we were once in the trade.
Tempting as it is to rise to your bait re giving you a spank and your potential for a raunchy blog I will decline, lest you start telling me that I’m the stereotypical pervy westerner who can’t keep his paws of Thai women. I’ll wait and see if you ever get a blog going (though I suspect you have one and just use this name for ranting against innocent people like me).
If you want to continue this debate feel free to drop me a mail, this must be driving Matt mad! And try to be original with your insults! ;-) Generally I don’t agree with a single word you say but it’s been enjoyable all the same. You never know, we might find some common ground and have a half civilised conversation.
Take care.
April 21st, 2008 at 7:03 am
This blog was originally about Thai journalists, so I will comment on that first.
After a few cost/opportunity calculations, the opportunistic journalists probably took advantage of said opportunity with very little cost (i.e., backlash from the public) and made their money. I am not quite sure why Thai journalism is so dramatic though. Perhaps the Thais are dramatic and feed off of such reporting. I see it all the time in the Pattaya newspapers. As a former college journalist, I find it quite strange the way articles are written here, full of colorful comments and speculation rather than objective, neutral fact reporting.
Yes, it is a shame when anyone exploits victims for personal gain, but, sorry kids, that’s life…and I do not think that is limited to journalists in Thailand. It is my experience that people worldwide will exploit any identified opportunity if there is a gain to be had.
Furthermore, I am enjoyed this Sooksiam, LOE, etc. discussion. It makes me realize everyone is telling the truth from their viewpoint, but when one zooms out a few levels of magnitude, the bigger story is not as easy to describe. Not only has the size of the landscape increase, but the level of detail in any one area has diminished.
I don’t think it helps to complain about dictatorships in Thailand or past behavior of colonizing/imperialistic Western powers. My theory is that human beings are all inherently similar and, given the same situations, they would all basically do the same things. So if Thais were given the same environmental, geographical, social, economic etc. conditions the Europeans had back in the day, they would be imperialistic “bullies” (as Sooksiam called them) just the same. And vice versa.
For example, I recently read about the Burmese slave laborers that died in a truck on their way to Thailand. It is hard for me to imagine, as poor as the Thais are, that there are people poorer than them TRYING TO GET INTO THAILAND TO MAKE A GOOD LIVING!! And it bothers me that Thais look down at them just as Westerners look down at illegal aliens sneaking into their countries!!
It makes me think people truly are hierarchical in nature, whether by nature, by nurture, or both. Thais can look down at Burmese and exploit them for their cheap labor just as Americans do to Mexicans or British do to Pakistanis or whatever. People worldwide, regardless of their specific situations at hand, in essence exercise the same basic behaviors.
It is this kind of thinking that makes it hard for me to side with anyone in the “Thailand vs. Farang” debate or the “x vs. y debate” because we, as human beings, are all capable of the same sh!t and would predictably do the same things as anyone else if given the exact same situation.
I have heard the “Thailand was never colonized” mumbo jumbo before. That is simply denial-based rhetoric designed to soothe the minds of Nationalistic Thais. Never mind the fact that they were occupied by the Japs in WWII. Never mind the fact that they lost many, many a rai to the French before that. Never mind the constant warring between the Burmese and Khmer empires. You can go back to the very first paddy of rice the ethnic Thais planted in this region and find wars between them and other hungry homo sapiens.
But my point is that none of this really matters. I am no expert in Asian history, so if I am wrong please point it out to me. I only know about this stuff because I came to visit Thailand and wanted to understand more about the origins of the monarchy and, well, why Thailand is the way it is and why there is so much angst between Thais and “Farang”. You guys, and myself included, are a minority. Most people won’t spend the time to discuss this. The average farang-hating Thai on the street doesn’t have the time, education, nor inclination to develop a better understanding. But that’s where a lot of hatred and tension comes from, right? It comes from the ignorant and spreads without concern for us, right?
But perhaps there is some biological reason for that. and perhaps there is a reason why censorship exists here. Perhaps there is a reason everyone is overly polite and strives to save face. My answer is simply this: everything makes sense to someone, somewhere. It make not make sense to you, but it makes sense somewhere.
Perhaps there is a reason for everything here that is different than in “The West”. Ah, yes, the ubiquitous “West”. I get so friggin’ angry when Thais lump as all into the collective “farang fruit basket”, yet we are so quick to use words like “Westerner”. I don’t know about you guys, but, as an American from Southern California, I am vastly different in nature from even those “farang” from New York much less someone from, say, France or Belgium.
When we have idle chat in our favorite local pub, do we even know WTF we are talking about when we speak of “The East” or “The West”? East of what? West of what? Constantinople? The former Eastern Bloc? New Delhi? What?
June 11th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
gonzobrains simply brilliant!!!! I agree with you each and every single word!
I’ am from Long Beach, California (Southern California) and I was an exchange student to Thailand for a year. I lived with a thai family, went to a thai school, had a thai friends, would kick it at Big C just like anyother typical thai.
From that experience I must say I’am glad to be back in the USA!! Thailand great country and has a great potential to become a world player in this ever more globilazing world. But, with the reincarnation of the Thai Rak Thai = to the PPP with Samnak as Premier!!! The same guy that was governer of Bangkok that would not go visit the flooded areas of Bangkok because he would get WET!!!! Thailand is taking a step backwards a way from progress.
BTW, I would like to get back to the LOE and Sooksiam conversation. That is an excellent example of when a “Farang” is trying to critizices the Thai ways to an individual that has too much pride and ignorance to accept critizism. I have had the exact conversations with countless other Thais that would respond to the same way. Whenever I would critize the Thai culture. From the Japanese occupation to the dogmatic Buddhist traditions they have.
In the words of Bob Dylan, “Times are changing and we must change with them.” But keep our values and Moral belifes.