The ugly side of nationalism
As I wrote before, I've been unsettled and saddened by the abusive, violent, irrational things some Thai people have been saying recently. The anti-foreigner sentiment hasn't calmed and there is still a tendency to react angrily to news stories. Just to give you a few examples of what I'm talking about, here are some quotes aimed at the Western press from around the Internet, some from my own Facebook friends.
"If i had a chance or a license to kill someone, I'll have those people killed. no peaceful to these ridiculous asshole people, fuck you and your career."
"mind his own business, he doesn't even know much about THAILAND (except food, possibly) and seems too much a prick of himself…I bet he's born that way…a whining prick!"
"FUCK YOU CNN, WOULD YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP !????! sorry for being rude but WHY? they need to drag our King to be involved with this situation???"
"The stupid Americans are too arrogant to search for the right conclusion."
"Fuck CNN, let's get Dan Rivers out of Thailand."
"Judging from his work from the past, this foreign journalist who has been staying in Thailand for that long period, we would have no doubt that he has been paid not only by CNN to perform his duty."
" I am Thai. I love my country, my king. before reporting please investigate.So, don't report any thing if you don't know the truth.you should change a new reporter now."
"dan river,let him go to rest in peace with SEH DEMONS DEANG in hell."
"CNN hires him to lie the world coz US gov. would like to take over our country like Iraq."
"I am in a war against Dan Rivers of CNN. Go to my facebook and help me!"
"Actually, he should shut up and also shut his life in Thailand. I encourage Thai people to express our hateful feeling to him and if we have chance, aggressively tell home to go away from Thailand. He is useless for our country."
"if you not a stupid you should know that Dan River was take side with the suck RED SHIRT and seem to be he get a big money from the Tyrant Thaksin."
I could go on. These outbursts aren't coming from uneducated people. They're not even coming from people unfamiliar with foreigners and the Western press. It is perplexing to think that these Thais cannot see the dangers of stirring up this anti-foreigner sentiment that is becoming increasingly more filled with hatred, to point of wishing death on journalists and others.
And this isn't even touching on the two op-ed pieces the SMH has ran on the Thai King or the clusterfuck that was CNN's Brooke Baldwin covering the same subject.
Thailand's Ambassador to Australia, Kriangsak Kittichaisaree actually had an opinion piece published by SMH. He also wrote a letter to SMH in which he went so far as to accuse an SMH journalist of being one of many hired "spin doctors" who are apparently paid to write bad things about the monarchy and the government.
There's also a letter to Dan Rivers written by someone from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, who apparently thinks Dan Rivers is in charge of everything at CNN.
Tulsathit Taptim said this in a recent op-ed for Nation:
All I'm saying is, we have reached the unfortunate point where nobody can do anything without offending or infuriating someone else. Like it or not, it's the reality that we have to live in.
There's a lot of truth in that, but angering someone doesn't have to result in such knee-jerk fury. Of course, anyone who has spent time in Thailand will have come across this before.
Anyone who even dares to question the government or the monarchy is labeled as stupid and on Thaksin's payroll.
The perspective of YOU-KNOW-WHO passing away in a not so distant future is driving a few people crazy… Bunker mentality…
Look what he replied when someone told him to be more balanced…
http://twitpic.com/1owwrx
I saw that. There's no mention of exactly what he was replying to though.
My favorite Thai response to Dan Rivers:
"Why don't you suck, gay."
This is modern political discourse!
As The Lost Boy indicates, people who whine that Rivers is one-sided and loose with the facts are not exactly showing sense or consistency in embracing this screenshot of a DM allegedly from Rivers. It's odd that Kipp didn't tweet about this DM when he received it – considering he was on the warpath against Rivers before then – or even bother to post a photo of it until four days later. And "shut up' is not exactly on the same level as the death threats he has received. But Lost Boy's comment is the most relevant – e have no idea what Rivers was responding to. And neither do the people retweeting and otherwise relaying that twitpic.
its simple as that some section of the thai society don't have guts to hear, see or talk abt the truth. i'll bet that Dan have done far better job than anyone of the thai journo. fuck off the nation, the propaganda machine.
Everything that Thai people hate you that because you are on opposite side of the "Thruth"
You distorted facts something.
If I don't understand, I will not write or talk with the others. I think it's not The ugly side of nationalism but Thai people try to tell your wrongs. because it's not affect only you but you try to tell the wrong to the world. Please search the both side information before report.
It's sad. I'm a foreigner libing in Thailand and i have to say i was a bit gutted when i saw information being a bit biased towards the red shirts yet, before jumping to conclusions…. i wanted to know what was realy whatever was said.
About the comments on the King, well… that is just disrespectful to Thais. Same as the poster for Hollywood Buddah. Common sense
ok .. the lost boy, if you don't get it, what is being written here has no different from what was reported by Dan Rivers, the only one side of things. You seem to pick only comments from irrational and angry people (you called them uneducated) consuming Dan's news while there are so many rational comments, maybe even more than comments with anger, rationally expressing why Dan is being against in Thailand. I can actually collect thousands of them too. Why not picking those comments here too? I don't think there is an idea of anti-foreigner in Thailand. There are so many foreigners loved by Thais but some foreigners that did bad things to Thailand will definitely be hated. No wonder.
See the way he quoted it's still be one-side story. What a pity boy!
CNN should be blamed for reporting only one-sided of the story in Thailand. Most Thais do not have anti-foreigner sentiment, we only do have the saddened feelings that the recent news reported by CNN about the situations in the country was not at all accurate and prejudiced.
Obviously, Dan Rivers is more like one of the Reds by jawboning ing the whole point from his unbalanced report to the now-many-educated Thais-are-targeting-foreiners story.
I don't recall seeing other news agencies or reporters faced with the same harsh criticism or anti-foreigner sentiment as you described, on their reports of the same matter.
Consider that and perhaps switching to 'lighter' stories like the wonders of Thai foods and fruits, and leave the serious stuff to the pros.
alas, you still dont get it, Dan. I am sorry for you
Sorry for my poor english.
But I want to let you know that I've been followed yr news since Taksin's government. Your reports were more positive to government during that times. Your reports are positive on red ppl side since last year. Nobody said anything. We have never complianed about your work even if sometimes it's not quite correct.
If you 've been here for long enough, and you've tried to understand Thais. You'd know that we are really really tolerant ppl, we have lots of patience and always keep our mouth shut.
But this time (during this red shirts incidents). Why there r so many THAIS ,or even farangs like you, came out and questioning your work.
It's for you to listen to your andiences, not to accused them back " Anyone who even dares to question the government or the monarchy is labeled as stupid and on Thaksin's payroll"
I cannot believe I would see this sentence from someone who called himself as professional reporter!
the lost boy is confused, thai ppl do not have "The anti-foreigner sentiment" but rather anti Dan's rivers distorted reporter. Oh and I think Dan deserves those the abusive, violent, irrational things some Thai people have been saying recently. What Dan had reported was a disgrace. I have no sympathy for you.
How can it be anti foreigners? Many of the people posting comments against Dan River and CNN are foreigners!!!
Nothing to do with Thais against foreigners but Thais and Foreigners against one sided press and all the Press Lobby and PR mafia that you can buy if you. Have enough money.
I agree nevertheless that some comments went over the top and the duty of the editor should be to control and delete some comments.
But there is a real issue here!!!!
Freedom of Press = Duty of Press
Freedom doesn't mean that one can do anything you want. That is call anarchy or dictatorship. We have to protect the press and we need the press, in the meantime it is like for doctors, lawyers, judges… They have some duties and the first one is to be as objective as possible and not to support any propaganda… So YES! Dan River and others have the right to report that the army was shooting with real bullet. They have the right to question the danger of having the army in the street, the danger for the population… But he has the duty to report what the red shirts were doing as well, what the opposition Party was doing, what Thaksin was doing… To report that the army never intervened in the location were the "peaceful" protesters, I would rather say where the apparently peaceful protesters mainly elderly and children… Cause the govt wanted to avoid any "innocent" casualty, to avoid "collateral damages" as CNN loves to report dead innocent people… The duty to explain why the reds didn't really accept the reconciliation plan for the PM…
He picked only violent comments. He did not pick the rational comments as this.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/life/education/37609/breaking-news?awesm=fbshare.me_AN0w3
please read it.
From his behave as 'pick-only-comments-that-make-him-look-good', he deserve the violent and rude words.
For me, Dan River is nothing just some "farang" who've been to Thailand and spent his whole holiday in Patpong and went back home and think he knows Thailand.
as a reporter you should be better than those guys.
This is the first time that massive THAI people are against CNN .
Whilst I do not agree with the violence and threats made at Dan Rivers and totally agree with your description of Brooke Baldwins piece, I think there are a few points that should be addressed in your post.
1. Both Thai's and foreigner's who live in Thailand strongly objected to DR's one-sided reporting of the protest and subsquent clampdown.
2. To claim that my reaction to the damaging and in my opinion misinformed and misleading reports was a knee-jerk reaction is to insult my intelligence and that of a lot of other people. It was not a knee jerk reaction – it was a carefully considered and then researched reaction for the reasons I have outlined above; the reports to millions of people around the globe were simply misleading.
3. To think that the MFA thinks that Dan River's is running everything at CNN is again insulting the intelligence of the people at the MFA. I believe the letter was addressed to Dan as the Head Correspondent for CNN based in Bangkok.
4. In the Kingdom it is against the law to question the monarchy. Those who choose to live in the Kingdom should live by its Law. Many of us who questioned Dan's objectivity also question how the government handled matters and how it is resolving the issues. To lump these two issues together is incorrect.
As I stated earlier I do not support nor condone the violence or ugly threats made against Dan and his family. I regret those that have been sent to him because it detracts from the balanced arguments that with review of his broadcasts show his reporting lacked objectivity and depth.
You still don't get it, do you?
People got angry because they are hurting when the stories got twisted around and they feel that the justice hasn't been served. The bad guy is getting away and you don't even see who the real problem is in Thailand.
How come you accused those who left the comment that they are not well-educated.
For Thai, English is the second language and there are million of Thai that don't understand English at all.
In fact if those people who left the comment in English on your unbias news, CNN, it means they are very high-educated in deed.
I am very high educated, but I can still say..FUCK YOU CNN. Is this to prove that those people are non-educated? Again, what a shallow conclusion from CNN. Nasty, shallowed…
You are allowed to question our monarchy, but again, not too far to drag them, especially the King, to get involved in your disgusting and unbias news?
Have you ever heard of "think global, act local"? You can think, agree or be the slave of , whatever your ideaologies are. But when you are in Thailand, you need to have the awareness and the understanding of the local people. That is called…EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENT! Have you ever heard of that?
Who give a FUCK, about all the American ideaologies such as capitalism, consumerism, americanism, greed anyway? I live in America, but born Thai. I don't think some of the american ideas are excellent. Worry about USA first, fucking lots of weirdo religious extremists, lots of propaganda set up just to pass the law to facilitates those who maximize the profits, corporate cultures?
I don't think you need to worry much about the Thai Monarchy, especially the KING. He has done good stuff for Thailand, you don't even know as you don't even born there.
SO, SHUT THE FUCK UP…AND THINK MORE…EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE …..
You idot!
You might not aware of what you wrote in here but we Thai aren't against Western press or any foreigners, we against Mr. Dan who is bias". He is an educated person but his brain has only one sided of the story which he can't admit that you made a mistake. How can he be a journalist why he can't just accept when people criticize hi???
Anyone who even dares to question the government or the monarchy is labeled as stupid and on Thaksin's payroll?
Let me ask you this question: Anyone dare enough to tell the truth that how much thaksin gets from Thailand? How much corruption he did? and Who bring the innocent people to die? Who make the country go down the drain? How? and why?
I don't get it. I really don't. I have been in Thailand over 10 years and I don't understand why Thais are so upset with the foreign press. And THIS worries me. It makes me think Thais have become irrational and even dangerous. They feel no one has a right to comment on their country.
These are sad days for Thailand. Sad days indeed.
Nationalism make ugly asshole like you to get out of Thailand…
I love my Thailand and this is my country…get out of my country if you think you wanna change my country into a bad way…
Thaksin = Thug-sin… terrorist.
so, you're saying it's like anti-wog sentiment because of the western press… sounds like we've been let down by the media again, damn!!
Any nationals who dare to challenge CNN's lie will be branded 'ugly nationalism'
Really, people can be unbelievably rude when angry or offended. But it's not an excuse for Mr. Rivers for not explaining himself.
Just one note. I said "These outbursts aren't coming from uneducated people. That's a double-negative.
@ Joe – don't worry be happy, you're safe for now unless you're too close to this show, it's catching http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/05/lost-on.html
Sadly most of these bizarre comments are proving your original post correct.
I remember staying in a short-lived email correspondence with Mr Lost Boy during the 06 coup aftermath. Despite lacking depth in analysis, Mr Matt was so kind enough to reply and try to get a discussion out of me like he was trying his best to understand the Thai situation.
I hope you still have the same attitude.
As many have rightly pointed out, we're not against foreigners (heck, I even got my postgrad and teach intercultural communication. I'm pretty much aware of the danger of racism and intolerance).
But again, like during the coup, you lost focus on what the issue really is.
We're against ignorance and some supremecist Westerners' imposition of universal Western model of thinking and of democracy. We're against "judgments".
We're against spreading lies that would potentially harm our country.
The reason why most of us Thai middleclass is strongly against shallow/biased foreign media outlets is because they are biased, and highly misleading to the outside world! I'm all for freedom of speech, but heck, ignorant foreigners need to seriously get over themselves. How about learning how to listen first before pointing out idiocracy? The downside of liberal Western education is that it can give way to the mentality that ones can pretty much make an ass out of themselves as they wish simply for the sake of free speech! There's no such thing as total freedom because it can easily and inevitably encroach on others' rights and liberty. That's why we have law and enforcement.
So, by and large, I know bad news sells. But seriously, underpinning the class war between the oh so poor oppressed rurals against us educated/westernised urbanites is just so cliche, so 60's-70's!
Hello? being a developing country doesn't automatically mean what we're experiencing now is the oh so principled/suppressed democrats struggle against the oh so evil dictatorial government.
And these shallow/judgmental foreign reports are the reason why we're outraged.
And as one comment rightly put it. The freedom of the press also entails the duty of the press to report with impartiality.
Mr. Dan River and CNN need to learn from Thai media. Thai reporter are never biased and never dramatise events to sell our papers. We only tell the truth as dictated to us by Thai army and government spokespersons. Thank you.
Dan Rivers …. A real lost boy
If you were thai, you would definitely offended by shallow ,dull , biased and pro- torrorist reported to the whole world from Dan Rivers and CNN .
Dan , you are real shallow and not accepted what you did wrong Despite you did wrong,you blame nationalism ,thais and others but not a bit of yourself. Everythings happened for a reason… if you did not do anythings wrong so obvious , why you got all complaints and offened responses from Thais like never before. Thais are not anti -foreigner however we are anti BIG LIERRRRRRR like you ( BS Dan Rivers……) Get out of my beloved country . You are not welcome.
have you ever seen Anderson Cooper in action?like in Pakistan or Iraq?
he's everything you're not, Dan Rivers. Maybe that's why he got his own show and you're stuck in this country you seem to hate so much…
Dan Rivers thinks and talks like a kid. I wonder how he passed CNN recruiting process.
Everyone is saying CNN is biased but can someone point out the moments in the coverage where they did this?
I just get the feeling that most people here have barely watched any of it and are just repeating "we hate CNN" without actually considering things like the facts of the matter.
So, come on CNN haters, 5 specific examples of CNN bias.
I know FOR A FACT I could give you 100 examples of The Nation and Bangkok Post's bias!
ha ahhahaha
You Thais and expats are completely funny.
You now live in one of the most heavily societies on earth and you complain about CNN bias??????
Get a grip guys – everyone from anywhere else on the planet thinks you look like complete morons.
disgusting and unbias news = Dan Rivers ..oops
Brooke apologize didn't she, I think she did. And if she did, thank you Brooke. And as for Dan, thanks for turning me on to Al Jazeera. I watched Thai News all through the events and the only time they seem to be "dictated" by the government is when they occasionally switch to central broadcasting. The Thai broadcasters are not bias and not always on the side of the government throughout the crisis. But what irk some "freedom fighter" sympathizer is because they're not sympathetic to a group of people in red that block road. Violate civil rights, the basic principle of democracy, by putting up barrier to illegally search people and assaulted those who do not agree with them. Use weapons on authorities. And when it all came to an end, burn the place down because they didn't get their way. On the last hours reporters scurried to remove their green armband because remnant of red shirt guard were out hunting for reporters because they didn't "like" the news. And after all these events, when Thai ask for peace once again. Those same group, the UDD, despite their violent misdeed seen by all Thai and not shared by many foreigner because international news seems to "blackout" the government point of view. These same group of people who almost burn a city down have the nerve to keep lying about democracy, freedom, election, and irritated most Thai further. So again, thank you Brooke. But No, I have no sympathy for Dan Rivers.
thailand = bullshit land
You can't report the truth if you hide in red asylum most of the time, man. I saw many weapons and armed terrorists even on TV so why didn't you? I live in the middle of war zone so I saw many things that you didn't see. It's not because of nationalism 'cause we're talking about your "morality". I feel sorry that living in Thai many years can't open your eyes.
Did you publish this stories from your apartment? CNN GO TO HELL!
Just to clarify, I am not CNN.
@Dan, I know you are not CNN.
I believe Thai ppl and majority of the world trust CNN a lot. The problem here is, you are reporting on behalf of CNN. And as a journalist, you have failed to report accurate unbiased information. You may have ruined CNN's image in Thailand, but the bigger problem for us is you had ruined Thailand's image in the world.
Not sure if you see this yet but it best describes what I mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38quBV7EKdY
Even if it can be proved that there is no red/yellow tag on your head, I suggest you to do harder to convey accurate information. Also judging from my Facebook timeline, I think you're having hard times these days ..
In short, it is not about nationalism. It is just that people cannot put up with distortion of the facts in Mr.Rivers report… Don't you really ever know or you just pretend not to?
Please do not call it anti-foreigner either. People are anti you yourself and probably CNN as a result of lacking in reporting unbiased news about Thailand.
Why don't you look around and see if AJE people get the same kind of sentiment before saying that it is "anti-foreigner".
the campaign to discredit the western media has begun. those people behind it have decided that they did not like the reality they were shown, and instead of dealing with it. they have chosen to shoot the messenger. It is a form of censorship. instead of blocking journalists, they just convince the gullible masses that the journalist are all wrong…thereby achieving the same result.
it is very simple…. in the western media, we report what we see. there were reports that showed people on the red side of the barriers with guns, there were other reports that showed Army snipers shooting wilding into the crowd….which were there more of ?….well, let us all be honest, there were far more soldiers with guns than red shirts.
unlike the thai media, we in the western press are not terrified of upsetting our superiors, or worried about are jobs. Several so called thai media commentators have suggested that the western press should listen more to the Local media…. Well this is not only ridiculous but insulting. when there were explosions and gun shots on the street…we would flick though thai tv to see what was happening… and what did we see ?….soap operas !!
even yesterday at the government press conference. the western media were handed a "declaration" from the gvt. listing all of the mistakes we had made…..
one of which was very telling… it stated that the army had not been shooting at people !!!… and yet on every tv channel on the planet, including thai tv, there has been images of troops firing automatic weapons, horizontally at protesters…. TNN TPBS Ch3 etc etc all have shown and continue to show these images. and yet they continue to accuse us of false reporting ???
where is the logic ?
if you don't like your reality, do something about changing it…don't shoot the messenger.
To send death threats and threats of violence to Dan Rivers is childish and pathetic.