With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our Government not warn of the dangers faced there?
Would you believe that’s a headline from The Independent? Andrew Spooner wrote an article that was published on January 13. His opening gambit:
At least 17 Britons have been murdered in Thailand since 2003 – including Toby Charnaud, brutally slain by his Thai wife. Now, his family want to know why our Government is so reluctant to warn that the ‘Land of Smiles’ is one of the most dangerous places on earth for its British residents.
Madness. Africa? South America? Brixton? In 2005, Toby Charnaud was unfortunate enough to be killed and cut up into pieces, thanks to his ex-wife. Most of you probably remember that case.
Yet what also emerges from the death of Charnaud and many others is the fact that Thailand, despite its popularity with the British, is among the most dangerous places in the world for UK visitors – a fact that the Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO) has been reluctant to publicise.
So here is Andrew Spooner — the reporter, not the family of the deceased — asserting that Thailand is one of the most dangerous places on earth for UK visitors. To his credit, he does have figures to back him up, but that doesn’t negate that fact that he is deliberately misleading his readers.
On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.
He is painting a black picture of Thailand because of five murders. The article goes into great depth regarding the life of Charnaud, but the whole thing seems realty rather pointless.
What are people’s thoughts? Is there any need for an article like this? Is it scaremongering or does it need to said?
I’m off to Bangkok tomorrow so might be a little light on blog posts. Happy Friday.
January 16th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Scaremongering? Nah. Book promotion.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:37 am
This is what the British media are paid for. They sensationalize(if thats spelt right) news stories and statistics with headline grabbing statements such as this. Give me the option of walking down a street at 2 am in Bangkok or London and it’s not even a choice
January 17th, 2008 at 4:01 am
Geez, he should try Washington, DC! That’s really not such a high crime rate, all considered.
I don’t know about that case but it sounds absolutely chilling.
But… the same thing happened in this country with some Marine killing his girlfriend, burning her and her unborn child and burying them in the back yard.
I’m not ready to say Thailand is more dangerous than here. .. for anyone!
January 17th, 2008 at 5:35 am
I think differentiation has to be made between tourists and peoples who come and live here. Many of the tourists’ problem are alcohol-related or opportunistic crimes, being drunk and partying in places you’re not familiar with has got to affect your chance of getting murdered.
The expats, especially ones married to Thais, will have many more encounters with all sorts of locals, dealing with relatives & doing business. (And in Thailand or anywhere else, most murders and suicides happen in one’s own home anyway)
I think a better measure to use is the death rate per person per time spent in the country.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Yeah.. I read this article online a few days ago and thought it seemed a little off. I’m not a statistician, but something seems questionable about Thailand being “one of the most dangerous places on earth…” I agree with Chris, it seems that something like “total number of British/Western/Foreign (whatever) man-hours in country X to number of murders in a given period of time” would more accurately reflect reality.
I’m not from the UK, so I’m actually unfamiliar with The Independent, its quality of reporting, and its reputation. At first I was unbothered by the article, because it seemed like trashy, tabloid journalism. I assumed that as such, it was probably published in a trashy tabloid and no one would take it seriously anyway. Am I wrong in that assumption? Is it actually considered a respectable periodical?
“In the gruelling task of discovering the awful fate of their son, the Charnauds discovered a Thailand not seen in its tourist authorities’ glossy brochures.”
“Born and raised a farmer’s son, Charnaud only ever seemed to have one destiny growing up. “We always thought he was going to be a farmer,” says his father. We’re sitting in the kitchen of a cosy country farmhouse in the tiny Wiltshire village of West Kington, where Charnaud and Som (Laoruang’s Thai nickname) spent two happy years together.”
Seriously? SERIOUSLY!?! Come on! It’s so bad I can only laugh.
Anyway, Lost Boy, whose name I can only assume is Matt, on a different note, I’d like to thank you for keeping this blog. I’ve been reading it frequently for the last few months and have quite enjoyed it. Also, I’d like to encourage you to keep posting occasionally about the murder/assault of the two Canadians by a police officer in Pai earlier this month. I have a few friends whose parents are in the police force. They have suggested that what may being going on is that the police are planning to drag their feet on this issue until the public has forgotten about it, at which point charges against the accused officer would be dropped and the issue closed. I’ve noticed the story has dropped out of the newspapers recently and I fear the whole thing will be forgotten by the public consciousness soon. This would be heartbreaking. I encourage you, Lost Boy, to keep reminding people about this story. Don’t let us forget until there is some ending, just or not.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
he is right ,more tourists,not only UK tourists have been murdered in LOS than any other tourists destination you care to name .these are very brutal murders going back 20 years or more. In 1987 2 english girls were murdered on Ko Chang by fishermen who wanted their sony walkmans .
January 18th, 2008 at 7:58 am
I think a lot of it is that people come to Thailand and expect it to be a safe haven. Thailand has become so much a part of popular Western culture that people don’t think that they can get into trouble. People don’t go with the same caution they would if they were traveling around South America or places where they are more aware of the risks.
Andrew Spooner can write an article like that because so many people come to Thailand. A lot of people come here with their own perception of what Thailand is like, only to discover, occasionally to their demise, that it is very different.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
If 50 UK civilian nationals are killed abroad every year, and Thailand makes up 10% (ie 5), where are the other 45 happening?
Only last year 5 young ladies were murdered in the UK in the space of 10 days.
The papers can say what they like, as I know which country I would rather raise my familly.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Yes, sure there is a need for an article like this. I’m not quite sure how the basic facts of the situation can be seen as “sensationalist”. If 10% of all Brits killed abroad are killed in Thailand then that’s a fact, not sensationalization. What would be more chilling would be the number of foreigners in total killed in Thailand annually, it’s huge. And even more disturbing is the leniency with which Thai murderers of foreigners are sentenced. Most receive stiff sentences followed by release a year later when the media coverage has died down.
January 19th, 2008 at 3:52 am
I am generally not a supporter of Thais, I think they are broadly uneducated and immature people who respond to things in an uneducated and immature way. This sometimes brings me into conflict with people who have a fairy floss impression of Thais and Thailand, and who often turn out to have been most often just skating across the surface of Thai life and culture, thinking that everything is as the Thai propaganda machine would have us believe. You know, good service, smiling, calm, pleasant and cheap. All of which is demonstrably untrue.
Then an article like this one comes along and people react to it exactly in accordance with their stereotypes. They either have a realistic view of Thais, in which case they agree that Thailand is a pretty lawless place in which you have to be careful, or they don’t in which case they leap to the defence of Thais and succeed only in demonstrating that they have an incomplete understanding of them.
The Thai is, as I noted, immature and uneducated, and Thailand is a dangerous place because of this. Typically, as other have noted, it is the loss of face scenario which generates the most danger here. The Thai cannot tolerate damage to the self-image or self-esteem, and if this happens, disproportionate violence often ensues as it appears to have done with the recent tragic events. Sadly, murder seems to have been a typically juvenile reaction by a poorly educated and poorly disciplined member of the ‘law enforcement’ establishment. Which is surely ironical.
Another illustration of the immaturity of Thais is their view of the law in large and small ways. To see this in action watch motorcycle riders routinely flout the law. or, if you like, cross the road on a crosswalk and see i the drivers actually stop, as Thai law requires them to do. Sadly, the government is comprised of Thais also, as is the police force and the judicial system, so their response to a situation where a Thai has committed an offence (even murder) is also typically uneducated and immature. They wait for a while until the fuss dies down then they quietly forget about it, and the Thai walks free or gets a smack on the wrist, as also happened in the case of the Kanchanaburi murders - also, as it happens perpetrated by a policeman.
Observance of the law, honesty, and sensitivity to loss of face are educational and psychological issues. The factoid as reported, that 10% of all murders of British tourists is worrying. Those of you who have actually lived in Thailand and who don’t live in some kind of an ‘expat bubble’, have a better understanding of Thais and manage the risks of being a foreigner in Thailand routinely. These people know what I mean. Are all Thais violent and dangerous? No, of course they aren’t. Are all Thais immature and poorly educated? No, of course they aren’t. Are they on average less mature, less educated and less bound by the mores and laws of western society? Yes they are and we all need to understand this and manage our behavior while in Thailand. Otherwise we might get shot by a policeman with a big gun and a little dick.
Our Embassies really need to be more proactive with events like the recent tragedy. They need to stop kissing Thai asses and start giving better advice to their citizens about the danger of living among Thais, even for a short while. And yes, hey ought to start recommending to governments that they treat Thais in the same discriminatory and exploitative way that Thais treat foreigners in Thailand. Then we would likely see an improvement because their is one morality that Thais can be counted on to observe. Wallet morality.
Bedwyr
January 19th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Regarding The Independent, it’s actually a decent broadsheet which also comes in tabloid format, and as such, it’s disappointing to read such sensationalism in its pages. Nonetheless, it’s nowhere even close to aping The Sun or News of the World, and even this article had some substance to back up its headline.
Of course, The Guardian will usually be a more informative read, but James Lawton’s columns always provide an interesting perspective, at least on the sporting world.
January 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
English tourists in Thailand are quite eager at drinking a lot. And besides they don’t mind going to dangerous places.
So no wonder they are at risk.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Just thought I’d respond direct to bloggers here…
First of all the piece I delivered was balanced. I interviewed the Thai government (unfortunately their comments were edited out - not my decision) and I did state that Thailand is a safe place for the vast majority of tourists. I also stress how engaging a place Thailand is.
One other thing that didn’t make it in but was something that jumped out on me when researching the piece is how dangerous Thailand is for Thais. It has an astronomical murder rate and an incredibly high death-from-road-accident rate. The murder/accident rate for ex pat Brits compared to Thais is roughly the same per capita. And that figure is much higher than in the UK. It’s not my fault that’s how the figures stack up. Nor the Independent’s.
I also think many of the people who have commented here have no idea whatsoever how to put together a story like this nor how to get it published. I for one am certainly not anti-Thai in any way, shape or form. The piece is not sensationalised (I have emails from the Charnaud family who I got to know quite well thanking me for my sensitivity) but attempts to tell the story as I saw it.
Thailand has a general problem with its murder and accident rates. My main point is why isn’t the British government telling us about this? What the Thais do about it is their business. But it won’t change until they accept they have a problem
January 19th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
The simple fact remains that 17 UK citizens were murdered in Thailand in 3 years. Nowhere else in the world are UK Citizens murdered at such a high rate per capita. It’s not me asserting this but the cold, hard, undeniable facts.
If that didn’t happen there’d be no story, no article, and you guys wouldn’t feel the need to comment.
I’ve lived in rough parts of London and rough parts of Bangkok and found both have their good and bad points. For example, you’re more likely to get mugged in South London but a lot more likely to get run over in Thailand.
Oh - and the comparisons of time spent in Thailand various people suggest would be impossible to work out. Nobody keeps such data and it’s therefore impossible to quantify. Though I do agree it would be a good way to work out the figures.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:21 am
I am the writer of the piece in the Independent on Sunday and have been posting responses across a few blogs. I did post two on here but they have both been deleted. Funny that.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:22 am
oops - no they haven’t! apologies….
January 20th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
And for all fans of The Guardian here’s a piece they ran earlier in the year based, in part, on a couple of chats they had with their mates in the office. Now that’s what I call research! http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2007/aug/03/1